New honer

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by tomnat, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    Since taking the plunge and buying a set of Norton hones I have made two attempts to hone my two straights. The first time, I watched Glen’s video about using the 4/8k Norton and only the 4/8k Norton. Great video about using the one stone, by the way. Now at this point in time ;), I felt like I did alright, but once I tried to shave with it, I realized that I did not do alright as it pulled and tugged, and wasn’t comfortable. It was basically unusable. Ok, lesson learned. Last night I had another go at it, but this time I did a bit more reading and decided to use the pyramid method laid out in the “honing a razor” ,“Pyramid guide” in the SRP library. I felt that I had a good bevel so I started on the 4k and proceeded to follow the guide for honing an already pretty sharp razor, which I felt it was, but maybe it wasn’t. Anyway, I started with one stroke on the 4k flipped it and then did 5 on the 8k flipped it and so and so forth. Once finished I notice a definite difference when I shaved some arm hair off. (Do you guys, who hone, have any arm hair left??) Fast forward to this morning. I did three passes with it and it tugged a little bit and was a bit uncomfortable around the sensitive areas. It definitely needs some more work, but I’m just not sure where to go from here. Do I start all over with the bevel or do I repeat what I did last night, or do I use the method where you start with 25 strokes on the 4k then 25 on the 8k and so on? I’m just not sure.

    On my second razor I started on the 1k setting the bevel and it seemed as though I had a good bevel set, but I’m not really sure how to tell for sure. I did the fingernail test and it dragged. Should it drag the same across the whole edge? Mine kind of did a bit of a stutter, but still dragged. I also have a loupe and looked at the edge. There were no chips on the edge and it looked the same from heel to toe. I was satisfied so I moved to the 4k and proceeded to do one stroke, then 5 on the 8k and on and on. Once finished it wasn’t as sharp as the first and just like the first, it needed some more work.

    I was very encouraged and excited from my mediocre success and want to keep at it, but like I said I’m just not sure where to take my next step to improve the edge.
     
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  2. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    In my experience, :) I have found that the "90% of honing is in the bevel" saying to be pretty accurate.. Since the pyramid worked good for you I would drop back down to the 4k and do 20 circles on each side then do 20 more with lighter pressure,, then start the Pyramids again... At the end when you think your good to go, stop and rinse the 8k, now do some very light perfect x strokes and let the stone go to almost dry, should be about 15 -20 laps.. then strop and shave...


    Way to go,,, it isn't that hard it just takes some practice


    Notes:

    Yes, the TNT should feel the same across the entire edge, try to cut some arm hair right before each TNT if you have any left :)
    No, most of us have what my Wife fondly calls razor mange on our arms...
    Don't forget the TNT dulls the edge a bit so do a few more laps after each time you test it, the TNT also smooths up the edge eliminating micro-chips and roughness.. So there is a plus and minus when using it
     
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  3. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    :happy102: Perfect description of what it looks like - all patchy. At least my hair is blonde so it's not very noticable.

    Thankas a lot, Glen. I will give exactly what you said a try and see how it goes. I'm excited to get back at it and see if I can get it. Thaks again for the response!
     
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  4. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    i'm with Glen on this one, the importance of that first 1000 stone cannot be understated, it must be right comming off that stone, or it's pointless moving up, i like the thumb pad grab test also another indicator i like to use it should easily pop hairs right along the full length of the blade off the first 1000 stone, then it's a case of the boring bit just refining and polishing on to the next stone my progression 1000, 3000, 5000, 8000, 12000, 40 linen 60 leather.

    Jamie.
     
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  5. newb

    newb Resident Newb

    I can't add much to the above, Setting a proper bevel is fundamental. I set the bevel till it pops hairs. Then I go straight to the 8k to finish. This is in Glen's one stone hone video. I rarely do progressions, it works for me, but of coarse YMMV.
     
  6. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    Thanks, Jamie and newb. I will definitely pay more attention to the bevel. Mine hasn't popped hairs so now I will strive to get to that point, along with the other tests, before I move up.
     
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  7. Dslazar9

    Dslazar9 Took the Menthol-cratic Oath

    I really want to learn how to do this.... one day. For now sending my razors to Glen just works so well I am not optimistic that I will ever come close to it.
     
  8. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    Alrighty, I definitely took a huge step forward this weekend. I did what you suggested, Glen, and right away I could tell a difference with the forearm hair test. I stropped it out (which is another question I have. I want a new strop and wondered what you guys suggest?) and then shaved with it. It was really nice! Pretty smooth............much better than before. It felt like a different razor; I was very pleased with it. It still needs a little more refinement, though, so what would my next step be? Should I go back to the 20 circles again and go from there, or just a few more x-strokes on the 8k, or maybe even pick up, say, a 12k stone?
     
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  9. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    Well Tom i would advise you to get the 12000 stone, 8000 is not quite high enough as a finishing stone, i also prefer a bench strop, even though i do use a hanging strop, a Tony Miller Hierloom 2, but i also make my own strops which i much prefer, Now i must admit to having a preference for paddle or bench strops over hanging strops, even though i do use a hanging strop as well, but if i'm honing a few razors and my plate is full well i like to sit down in front of the bench strop because i think it gives you more accuracy and control when finishing the razor, how i make mine is with 4mm natural English vegetable pit tanned leather, i use a 15mm hardwood board that measures anything from 20 to 24 inches long and between 2 1/2 and 3 inches wide, i also use round velcro self adhesive strips fixed to the bench strop and the table, so there's no likely hood of the strop moving but easy to remove and store away if need be.

    Jamie.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    Thanks, Jamie. Nice set up you have there. I like the idea of the velcro to keep the strop in place. And I guess my next question would be....................what 12k stone do you suggest?
     
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  11. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    Well Tom i will put two forward, but only because these are what i know and what i work with, i'm sure there are a few equal to these but the two stones are easily sourced in the UK so that's another good reason, i very much like Ice bear King stones, you could get away with that in a 10000 or go with the Naniwa super stone in 12000, try and get the biggest stone you can afford we are talking 3 x 8 inches.

    Jamie.
     
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  12. newb

    newb Resident Newb

    Tom, I wouldn't want to discourage a new user from buying more hones. But the truth is you can get a very acceptable edge off of an 8K. I have a 12K and I rarely use it as I'm happy with the edge I get from the 8K. The thing you really need is practice. The more you hone the better that 8k edge will feel. Once you master bevel setting and honing off of that Norton,,,,,,,,, get a 12k... But right now being new to honing, learn to master the tools you have. A smart man once said " Skill is acquired by practice and not by purchase " This is something all of us traditional shavers need to remember.
     
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  13. Neolithium

    Neolithium I am Canadian, eh

    The Naniwa 12k seems to be one of the best for price/performance. I've also noticed more and more people shaving from the 8k and thereabouts without any issues. Hell I've done the painful process of one stone hone on a single natural coticule (Painful = OH MY GOD THAT WAS A LONG SESSION) and from what I've read, those particular naturals really shouldn't be more than an 8k equivalent either. I have a 1k, 3k, 8k Naniwa on the way and will be trying the synth route for a little while just to experience something new and have a feeling it will be just fine.
     
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  14. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    I hear you, Newb. And so does my wallet. For now I think I will stick with what I have, but Justin, you are right about the Naniwa 12k seeming to be one of the best price/performance stones out there, from what I've read. I think I'll have to pick one of those up in the future, but for now..........................practice, practice, practice.
     
  15. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    I'm with ya. Really, the only way I'd feel comfortable is to work side-by-side with someone to show me. I'd hate to spend the money on hones, then get frustrated when it wasn't working for me because of something I was doing wrong.

    Anybody hone your own str8s within an hour or so of Philly?
     
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  16. Dslazar9

    Dslazar9 Took the Menthol-cratic Oath

    No, but I"ve considered looking for a local Chicago person for the same reason-postage adds up. I also have so many straights that I'm losing track of
    which ones are sharp. I'm working on a rotation system storing them in different cups depending on how many usages they've had, but it's getting lopsided.
    I have to tell my wife to stop bringing razors home from her estate sales-----no maybe not.
     
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  17. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Sounds like you are moving forward...

    Your questions have pretty much been answered so I will just review

    Next Hone: If you just have to buy one, then I recommend the Naniwa 12k also, good finisher, goes well after the Norton 8k, and very good value, one of the best actual polishers out there, it is pretty hard to beat at any price...

    No Next hone: I would recommend this as you are still moving forward, means you still have room to learn the Norton 8k better, when you don't need another stone is when you are actually ready for one :) "Skill is acquired by practice and not by purchase" that is a great saying TY Newb

    Strop: I agree with Jamie, and made my own bench strops for pastes also, and they are my goto strops if I am using pastes... Any good shoe repair shop will have leather to make them, I think mine cost $15 to make them 24" x 2 3/4"

    Linen/Leather strop: I only recommend two
    Under $50 Shipped, Google Illinois #827 or #127 they are the same strop different finish on the leather, I use the #827 everyday
    Over $50 www.straightrazordesigns.com I love the Premium #1 and feel good recommending it.
     
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  18. tomnat

    tomnat accepting applications

    Thanks, Glen.

    I have another question about pastes, or at least I think they are pastes. Here is a picture of what I got with the "sight unseen deal" from whippeddog.com and I would like to know if I should be using this and if so, where does it fall in line of progression.

    paste.jpg

    The Chomium oxide (green) is .3 microns and the iron oxide (red) is .1 micron. As you can see I have a piece of balsa wood with green on the one side and red on the other. Is this something I should be using every time I strop or use it only after honing or don't use it at all???
     
  19. Neolithium

    Neolithium I am Canadian, eh

    There's a lot of different ways people do it. Some do it once a week before a stropping (Heck I believe I read one person that uses it daily), others use it strictly after honing before going to leather, some do it in between honings only. Personally with my CrOx I just use it about 1-2 times a month for a little refresh when I don't feel like reaching for my coticule.
     
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  20. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    I have a leather paddle strop which i only use chromium oxide with, i also like to use it after honing, for me it just gives a extra little level of smooth refinement to the edge, before i finally go to the last strop plain leather, i use it this way, but i'm not saying my way is the only way to use it, i mix half a teaspoon of chromium oxide with a egg cup of neatsfoot oil, mix thoroughly so they are completly combined, now using a small soft flat tipped fairly wide soft artists brush dip it into the mixure and paint the strop then leave for several hours, a little word of warning about chromium oxide, because it's a pure pigment, be warned do not get this on your carpet clothing or anything else for that matter because it's nearly impossible to remove.

    Jamie.
     
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