Got some pivot pin stock and washers today and want some input. It's 1/16" rod stock but the holes on both blades that need pinning are larger than 1/16". I've seen people saying you want/need the stock to fit tight in the hole so it doesn't bend when you're peening. Is 1/16" not the universal size I was led to believe? Or is it OK if there's a little play around the pin through the blade and the scales? Thanks.
Damn. Might be a moot point right now. Got a starter set of rod stock, pivot washers and outer washers in brass and silver, but the silver washer will not go onto the silver rod stock. The brass washers go on both silver and brass just fine, but the silver won't slide on. It's like they're both exactly 1/16" with zero tolerance. Bummer. I was really looking forward to doing my newly-acquired Russian in silver pins & washers. I do want to know the consensus on the 1/16" stock in a larger hole, though. Good? Bad? Doesn't matter? None of the holes are elongated...they're just larger than 1/16".
Don't rush ... Give me some time today and I will either make a Vid or at least a Picture montage of how to overcome the issues.. The NiAg rod stock is often a little "Off" and the holes on the washers can sometimes be slightly tight... The Scale holes SHOULD be slightly larger, you do NOT want them tight, bad things can happen in fact I actually drill them at 5/64's not 1/16 for that specific reason.. The pivot hole are nearly always at least 5/64 some are even larger as long as the slop isn't too excessive you should not need to sleeve them.. IME I look at a sleeve if the hole is 3/32 or larger as that is the smallest OD on the Brass tube with a 1/16 ID
I've had the same issue with some nickel washers. As Glen states, drilling a slightly oversized (5/64) pivot hole makes one's peening life a whole lot easier due the variance in the rod materials.
Didn't make it to pinning yesterday so I will describe it to you I use an old SS scale from a Wapi to pre-set pins After I have a slight peen on one end, I slip the washer(s) on and if one is tight the next step solves that issue. I push the tight washer on as far as possible and place the end of the pin into the hole in the SS Scale I place the whole thing over a pre-drilled 5/64 hole in the bench or the one in my Block and gently tap the pin through.. Once the Peen and Washers are flush to the SS scale I tap, tap, tap and pre-set the pin before ever going near the new scales.. Now I have a pin with one near perfect peen and lock washers in place on one side of my new scales. I mount the Inner Bearing washers, razor and back scales, then put on the outer lock washers which should slide on much easier now since the first one "Re-sized" the pin and proceed to clip and peen the backside scale This all take less time then it did to type this Will follow this up when I get back in the shop
UPDATED INFO: Measured with some drill bits. Russian Volga Pivot Hole in Blade: 0.104" (Couldn't get 0.106" bit to go through). Scales: 0.089" (Couldn't get next size bit 0.093" to go through). Novely Cutlery Pivot Hole in Blade: .093" (Couldn't get next size 0.096" to go through). ================= Seems like it would be a mistake to use .0625" pins on these. With the Novelty blade being right at 3/32", what is the downside to using that size pin? What's bad about having the pivot pin snug in the hole like that?
Ok... Please understand that the razor in your hand may or may not be exactly "Square"... same with the scales The tighter the tolerances the more any variance from square will stand out as an issue.. How do you know ??? Mock up the razor using Microbolts as you are building the scales and working the fit of the wedge Microbolts become very valuable as you can put the pieces together and take them back apart.. They are also .o60" so you can see exactly how the .0625 pins are going to function.. Facts: Of the literally thousands of razors I have pinned I have never used anything but 1/16 Brass and NiAg rod, I have sleeved a few of the old Sheffield pivot holes BUT that only became needed when we as Restorists began tightening the distance between the wedge and the point of the razor as it sits inside the scale.. ie: we caused the need for the sleeves because we tightened a tolerance.. Mock up the razor and see what happens, it is the most foolproof way of testing the functionality of your build
Glen has mentioned these in his pinning videos and I do highly recommend one if you plan on doing a goodly amount of razor restoring. Pin or twist drill. Resolves the issue of too tight a hole in scales and variances in rod material...
Was just out in the shop and took the camera out there, sorry for some of the blur as I forgot the tripod.. I was doing some pinning so I took several shots to show what I was talking about above.. The Pivot holes From the Extreme large of a Hart to the extreme tight of a Helje These are just some razors that are laying on the bench and a TI that I have to re-pin right now.. Using Micro bolts to test fit really does help and regardless of how many I have done I always test fit.. Look at these next two pics, see the difference between the new Tortoise I just made, and the originals look at the point of the razor in relation to the wedge, we caused the issue ourselves by getting that distance tighter and tighter, Depending on the scale material, you can get very tight,,,, your G10's and similar very stable materials can be brought in to within 1/1000ths so that pin slop has to be tighter for those.. Why do we test fit and why is a bit of slop a good thing sometimes. Look very close at the difference between where the end of the razor is in relation to the flat board I am pressing the pivot hole down on, this razor isn't that bad, but it is off a slight bit, I have pics of razors that are way off, that little amount of slop in the hole allows you to slightly adjust how the razor sits in the scales with directional pinning.. Sometimes getting the razor to close and not hit the scales require even more work.. Lesson to be learned here "Check each razor against a flat surface to see what is going on first, so you know ahead of time if the razor is way off" That deviation can be caused by a slightly off Tang grind, a bent razor, a warp, or perhaps a twist, a perfect razor is a rare thing The SS Wapi scales and a stuck washer like we were discussing yesterday Pins ready to go on the razor after being pre-set using the Wapi scales and a bit of tap tap tapping as if someone gently rapping on the chamber door,,,,, sorry channeling Poe, on the Wapi scales hehehe Different sizes of brass tubes I can use to sleeve up over size holes, they all nest inside each other when needed, the two larger sizes are rarely needed.. I never try and get really tight I alwasy leave just a touch of slop in there, just like you find when taking razors apart... The 3 proof shots Have you ever thought why you always see those exact razor shots on every build I do (and most other professionals) ?? you might see extras too but always those 3 setups??? Let me explain, those shots are the proof shots, they show that the build is straight and tight, the razor won't sit level if the scales are not built square, and the blade won't stand without nice tight pins nor will it stand open and level if the razor build isn't pinned straight or very close to it.. So those 3 angles show quite a bit more then just a pretty razor.. I hope this helps a bit Now off to the hones ...
Glen hit the pin on the head. That bit of slop is a good cheat too; if you didn't sand the wedge small enough and the very tip of the edge is rubbing, you call pull the blade to sit back more and clear and move on. No need to tear down and go through the sanding again two: I was first starting out and had a great ca finish on some birdseye maple. The pin was tight but I moved on, during peening it got too tight and cracked the finish; I had to tear down and take 180 grit and sand passed the cracked layer and start over. That trick would have saved me a days worth of work. Now I do it on everything "just in case".
I love getting schooled on a Sunday. So…given that the scale holes on that Russian are .089 and the OD on the outer washers I have is .125, it would be a good idea to use an outer washer with a larger OD, yes? My pivot washers are .1875, so I could do a nice stack…of the .1875, .125, then the peened end. I did a mock up and it looks nice and this would give me a little more coverage over that scale hole.
I find that by using standardized set shots allows for what Glen describes here: a validation of the build (i.e. balanced design, tight tolerances, snug fit, finish, etc) as well as enabling for comparison between models. Viewing two or three razors photographed in a myriad of artsy angles may be visually dynamic, but having them all presented in a similar fashion allows the viewer to grasp the differences in the razors quite readily. There is a certain value in glamorous "Ooooo! Ahhh!" eye-candy product shots, but this very practical and functional approach to product photography offers more VALUE, in my opinion, to the more critical (i.e. experienced) viewing audience.
Really! So this is pinning 101 this is my first time seeing it done and then I have to learn how to make wedges talk about intimidating... Take care.
Only intimidating if you try and absorb EVERYTHING at once. As in how to eat an entire elephant, one take little bites at a time.
Not hard; just take some practice. Here's a helpful pictorial showing one way to do it: Click HERE or scroll down near the bottom of this page & you'll see my description of the process plus some photos HERE
