Blade Gap and Exposure - Three piece DE with shims inquiry

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by GeneralKinetics, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. ObiDon

    ObiDon member in questionable standing

    Let me throw another wrench into the works. Most of the Gillette Adjustables, regular FB, Slims, and Super Adjustables aka Black Beauty's, adjust both the gap and the angle of the blade. If you look closely the blade gets curved to a different angle as the gap changes. Most Gillette toggles only adjust the gap.
     
  2. R.D.Nelson

    R.D.Nelson Well-Known Member

    I truly would not be messing with shims this early in the game. Technique and a change in blades will do far more for you I believe. I see you are looking for more aggressiveness, from your first post and claim you saw little change but later in the discussion you stated you it makes a world of difference. Are you looking to experiment or do you wish to make the other razor just as aggressive as the jaws.
     
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  3. R.D.Nelson

    R.D.Nelson Well-Known Member

    I also forgot to mention some of the older blades where of thicker steel and more than likely worked better fro shims IMO. The thickness of blades now may still work but require more. Also be very careful to avoid ridges on the shim if you make them yourself as they could deform your blade profile and cause it to bite.
     
  4. Misphit

    Misphit Rest In Peace

    I learn so much from Gary. Always so informative. Worth his weight in razor blades he is, I tell ya.
     
  5. BigMark

    BigMark Tests razors by shaving Wookies

    He is worth his weight in 1959 Fatboys.
     
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  6. Jayaruh

    Jayaruh The Cackalacky House Pet

    Supporting Vendor
    I don't mess with no shims. I thought about it once, but I love my family too much.
     
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  7. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    Thanks Gents and that would be a whole lot of razor blades and Fatboys if the weight conversion was made! :happy102:
     
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  8. GeneralKinetics

    GeneralKinetics Well-Known Member

    Just had a great shave yesterday with the Jaws that was way better than any of the other razors shimmed. I'm just going to can the shimming idea for now and use the Jaws. That thing is like magic. It's been 24 hours and the hair is growing back like I shaved last night before bed. I can shave every 2-3 days with this thing and be totally happy. Super close, basically a BBS shave, with little to zero irritation. Closer and less irritating than the other razors shimmed and non-shimmed. I'm a car guy, so the mechanical and geometrical implications and adjustability of shimming is an idea that attracts me alot.
     
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  9. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    However, when you find the right setup ... stick with it for a while! ;)
     
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  10. maltedmilk

    maltedmilk Well-Known Member

    Article Team
    I had an epiphany when I paid close attention to the angle of the blade as it contacts the skin. Not the angle of the razor handle! The blade. ( I noticed a lot in common with woodworking planes, if that helps.)

    I've been thinking about blade gap and blade exposure lately. The guys who just kickstarted the Rockwell Razor had some great illustrations (and didn't try to explain every choice in their geometry, either!). I have "borrowed" from them just a bit to show this:
    zoom.jpg

    I can change the geometry by:
    • changing the size of the red rectangle (two directions)
    • changing the length of the green line (blade exposure)
    • changing the angle of the green line (blade deflection)

    Using shims can change all three variables. More shims makes the red box taller, of course. However, if your shims are different widths and stacked like stair steps, you get more blade deflection, which also shortens the blade relative to the guard. The shims might also stiffen the blade, too!

    That sure is a whole lot of variables to control! I've been wet shaving for a couple of years and not yet tried a shim. I might be able to cut them with enough precision — and keep it even on both sides! — but I am still busy comparing razors and blade combinations while (hopefully!) improving my technique. I don't think I am ready to record all the data it would take to understand the design effects of applying shims! (I could just shoot in the dark, I suppose, and see if I lucked into something that worked well for me... )

    I guess I could see it if you got down to one or two razors that you knew you loved. Because they are the ones and you don't want any others, I could see messing with shims to super-tweak. However, those of us in the full throes of RAD are a long way from paring down to just two razors! <sigh>

    NOTE: If you can save your beer money and want to try a modern adjustable, I heartily recommend this $35 clone of a Futur >here<. I yakked about it at length >here<.

    I like the way your mind works. Good luck and enjoy!
     
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  11. Bristle Me

    Bristle Me Insufficient

    If you are experimenting for the sake of experimenting, then more power to you.
    There are things to be learned by such activities, and, it is your face after all.

    But if you are just looking for a really good shave, R.D. Nelson told you true.
    Sticking with one razor, (and it sounds like the "Jaws" is very good for you)
    polishing up your technique, and maybe trying some different blades is going
    to be the best route to where you want to go. After a year or so with the Jaws,
    I think you'll find you can pick up most any DE razor, and get a pretty good
    shave with it. Technique is tremendously under valued in my estimation.

    Anyhow, be careful with those shimmed up chain saws,

    and Happy Shaving!! :bounce017:
     
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  12. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    I'm certainly no expert, but I have shimmed most of my DE razors at some point in time, while it does seem to work better in some razors than others, I've never found using just one or two shims in any of my razors has produced any kind of terrifying effect.. While care of course should be used, it's definitely not dangerous. Shimming to me just adds a bit of aggressiveness to a razor that's already close to where you want it, like an adjustable does.

    I've put as many as 5 shims in a(3 piece) razor and not sliced anything off. It's been my experience that no razor I've ever shimmed has ever been as aggressive, harsh, nick/weeper producing and irritating on my face as either a Merkur 37C Slant or an unshimmed Muhle 2013 R41!!
    I've found shimming an adjustable is not a good idea however as it can hang up or jam the TTO doors.:D

    I follow the "Bruce on Shaving" suggestion of using multiple razors for my shave. I use two razors for my morning shave, an unshimmed Cadet OC for the first pass and a single shimmed Weber DLC for the follow up passes.:) I get consistent, daily, irritation free DFS+ to BBS shaves with this combination. IMO shimming is a good method for adding a bit of adjustability to your 3 piece razor.:happy088:
     
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  13. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    Some unshimmed FaTips are also real aggressive. In fact my FaTip is more aggressive than my 2013 R41. FaTips have a well documented issue with quality control and this allows some razors to be aggressive and smooth, others aggressive and not so smooth.
     
  14. GeneralKinetics

    GeneralKinetics Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I've only gone up to 3 shims in those razors, and none of them were as aggressive as the Cadet OC, but also not as smooth. Something is magical with that Cadet OC design that it doesn't need a big gap. Its geometry is super good for me.
    The FHT is the only razor that came close in awesomeness.
     
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  15. GeneralKinetics

    GeneralKinetics Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I've never had any adverse effects from shimming. However, I have found that it does move up the relative overall aggressiveness in somewhat of a linear fashion, not quite. I'd say that with 3 shims: the Fat handle Tech, EJ89, and Gillette New all come into about a 5 ish, where the Cadet OC is a 6.5. But, still aren't as smooth or nice of a shave, or even easy of a shave, as the Cadet OC.
     
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  16. BigMark

    BigMark Tests razors by shaving Wookies

    @GDCarrington speeketh the truth. The FaTiP can be a mean creature.
     
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  17. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    Hi GD when did you get your FaTip? It seems I've heard what your saying about the early FaTips, but that the QC was better now? So I'm wondering if you had an early model or one of the later models? :)
     
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  18. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    I have had my Piccalo around a year now, but you never know how old the stock is so it may be an older model.
     
  19. J.F. Martin

    J.F. Martin Active Member

    I tried shimming and had some decent results. you're better off getting a different razor imo.
     
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  20. CyanideMetal

    CyanideMetal Wild and crazy guy

    Stick with the Cadet OC and forget the others. The Cadet is one of the best DE razors, IMO.
     
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