Just realized I don't know what makes a good lather

Discussion in 'Shave School' started by SlaveShaver, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    I've just realized from a discussion in another thread that the constant feeling of tugging that I experience, irritation, and tendency to get ingrown hairs may be at least partially due to the fact that I may not be making good lathers. Then I realized that after approximately two years of DE safety razor shaving I don't actually know how to identify whether I have a good lather or not.

    I have looked up videos on youtube and don't really find many of them particularly helpful, due to the fact that the people giving the demonstration on how to build good lathers often use advice that use subjective terms such as "Your lather should be shiny and sleek", which I don't really find helpful because one person's shiny and sleek is another person's non-shiny and non-sleek, and also because I don't know the difference between non-shiny and shiny lather or how to identify either.

    Is there some objective way of identifying that you have a good lather, some obvious indicator that even a moron such as myself could look at and instantly identify that they have a good lather that will offer good lubrication and protection? Because I never know when to stop working the lather, when to add water, or when to abandon and start all over again. Usually I just put a dollop of shaving cream in a bowl, then take a brush that has been soaking in hot water, squeeze it mostly out so that it is damp and then work it through for around a minute and then when it seems thick enough I apply it to the face. I never really add water (because, again, I can't make sense of the conditions that people recommend that you add water), and never really know when I have the right consistency (other than when there are no bubbles in it - however, even then, from what I can understand, it may not necessarily be the right consistency).

    I think perhaps once every few months I will chance upon the right consistency and have a really nice shave, but I never am able to identify what I did that was different from the times before.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. lightcs1776

    lightcs1776 Well-Known Member

    I prefer a lather that has too much water over one that does not have enough. It isn't, IMHO, not so important eat the lather looks like but that it is slick. Some soaps and creams will be able to give you a thick cushion as well as slickness, but a slick lather is my priority. If it leaves a slick feel after passed over by a razor, with no irritation, you got it right. At least this is what works for me.

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  3. Lancre

    Lancre Well-Known Member

    +1
    I'm a novice, so you can take my comment with a grain of salt, but the way I judge it is that if the brush drags in the bowl as I build the lather (like the feel of rubbing your fingers on velvet), then the razor will drag on the face. It needs a little more water. If the lather dissipates quickly, then it's too wet and I need more product. For me thin and slick is better than thick and cushionny. YKMV.
     
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  4. david of central florida

    david of central florida Rhubarb Rubber

    I usually do not add water directly to my lather on the first two passes, i may add a few drops for my last pass.
    I wet my face, actual droplets of water on my face. Take the loaded brush to my face, i swirl and paint until I'm happy. I don't look for a shine, but rather a yogurty(maybe a bit airier) consistency.
    If done right, it should hang on the razor, and come off and through like foamy wood shavings (with dirty little stubbles).
    My last pass I want it a bit slicker. I drip 5or6 drops into the tub or bowl. Then swirl the brush into this. It makes for a bit drippier, but it's s slicker.
    Although subjective, do as YOU like. I'd think(I'm no doctor) ingrowns would be a pass direction issue rather than a lather issue. Again I don't suffer from ingrown issues. So having no walked in your shoes, my advice, may not be very pertinent. Good luck, D
     
  5. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    Do you mean that it will cause more tugging on the face if the lather that is too thick? Also, what do you find the razor does if the applied lather is too thin?

    Also, what do you mean by slick?
     
  6. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    A thick lather, in most cases, is a dry lather. A dry lather does not give the lubrication a thinner, wetter lather will give. That thinner lather will provide more glide, less tug and pull.

    Slick - think rubbing your fingers together when you have Vaseline on 'em. Try that with your lather. Wet your fingers, get a dollop of lather on 'em, then rub them together to get a feel for the lather.
     
  7. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    If there's too much soap, it drags. It's almost sticky. If there's not enough soap, then the lather is really thin, and the razor doesn't glide well, so it'll jump and catch.
     
  8. Lancre

    Lancre Well-Known Member

    Others with more experience may tell you otherwise. I can only speak for myself. I find that if the lather is too thick I have to expend more effort to move the razor across my face. If I'm not careful, that can lead to me using too much pressure and causing irritation. For an example, try drawing your fingertips across velvet or a silicone baking sheet. Feel the drag? Now take an ice cube, wet it under the faucet and try dragging your fingertips across that. Feel the difference? Now translate that to your face. Ideally, you want the razor to glide with as little friction as possible.

    If the lather is a little too thin, your razor will glide easily, but the lather will dissipate quickly, and it provides little cushion. If it's WAY too thick it feels like you're just shaving with water. It's always a balancing act: How much slick do you want? How much cushion? The optimum point is going to be different for each individual. The bottom line is what feels good to you.

    What do I mean by slick? Try driving in freezing rain; that's the ultimate in slick. I'm not being sarcastic, that's the best illustration I can think of.
     
  9. SpeedyPC

    SpeedyPC Well-Known Member

    @SlaveShaver watch this youtube clip 'How to lather a shaving soap' by Michael Freedberg



    Build a lather and the first pass of your shave


    Second and third passes of your shave
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  10. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    Dip a finger in the lather, rub your thumb and finger together. Is it slippery? Then it's slick.
    Some shavers alter their lather for different razor types. Straight razors and shavettes seem to work better with a wetter lather. DE & SE seem to be fine with a less specific, wider range of lather.
     
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  11. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    Yes - I didn't mention it earlier, because it's really not important, but I tend to use a thinner lather most of the time. I don't worry about having to reapply halfway through the shave because I have this brush right in front of me :)
     
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  12. RetLEO-07

    RetLEO-07 likes his penguin deep fried, with pink sparkles

    Great conversation! I'm constantly learning here. That is why I LOVE this forum!
     
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  13. Fly2High

    Fly2High Breaking Frugal

    things I do to get the lather I want:

    1. I bowl lather - allows for testing easily (see below)
    2. I grab a small spoon, in my case a demitasse (espresso) spoon to measure the amount of soap I am using each time. It is hard to be repeatable if you do not start with a fixed quantity. You could also grab a Ice Cream store sample spoon or a Popsicle stick and mark a section on the stick. The point here is to use a known quantity of soap each time so that you can anticipate the amount of water you will need from testing.
    3. I use a damp brush and squeeze out as much water as I can. I want to add water and know how many drops of water go in. Again, repeatable. Each of my brushes holds different amounts of water so keeping that variable to a minimum has helped me. Some soaps need very little water, especially when you start off with too little soap and a wet brush hurts hitting the sweet spot.
    4. Test often.
    A. Water Test: I take a finger or two amount from the bowl and rub it together to test glide or slickness and squeeze it in your fist to see how thick and rich it is. I am selfish, I like having both!! If I am not sure if it has enough water, I take the same finger or two amount again but this time wet my thumb a bit before grabbing the lather and mix it together with my fingers in my hand to see what a little more water will feel like. If I prefer it, I will dribble a few more drops of water in my bowl of lather and whip again.
    B. Whipping test: Sometimes you need more whipping. when I sampled Martin de Candre, I thought I had over wet it. a good run of whipping yielded the creamiest, thickest and slickest lather ever. Had I stopped too soon, I would not have been happy. This too can be tested in your hand. grab the brush and only use a little lather in your hand and whip like crazy. If it looks better, do the same to the bowl.​
    5. In the beginning use far more soap that you think you need. More soap I find widens the range for adding water so it becomes easier to hit the sweet spot.

    Using a bowl, for me, allows me to compare a change with the original easily. this has helped me improve my lather.

    For me, I feel that good cushion protects you from applying too much pressure since the blade will need to squeeze the lather out of the way. Thicker lather, I think, prevents this.
    Slick lather protects against a poor angle. If you hold the blade too steep, it tends to drag and irritate or so I believe. slicker lather will help allow the blade to slide along without tearing up your face. I am new as well but from my experience, this seems to hold water. I could be completely off base. This is why I try to get both a thick and slick lather. I do not like soaps that tend to do one without the other.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
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  14. Col C

    Col C Well-Known Member

    I too like using a bowl for my lather. I feel I have more control over the outcome. Below is a Barrister & Mann soap that I just used a few minutes ago for today's shave. I always "bloom" (soak) my soaps with hot water for a minute or two while the brush is also soaking. This is a boar brush which I find makes for better and quicker lather than badger hair brushes. The stiffness of the bristles helps - in my opinion. Although this lather looks very thick with peaks and it was - it was also still quite "wet". I tend to use more water than less. Obviously some soaps produce lather easier than others - B&M is one that always performs well when it comes to making lots of nice lather. I loaded the brush for maybe 20 seconds and whipped the lather in the bowl for another 45 seconds to a minute.
    B&M Bay Rum Lather.jpg
     
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  15. IDuck

    IDuck Well-Known Member

    agree about bowl lathering....are you bowl or face lathering @SlaveShaver ?... if you face lather, I would say go to bowl lathering... FOR ME, im ok with most lathers outside of 2 things....1) it looks "dry"-meaning the lather looks as if it had been sitting in the bowl for hours (not enough water) and 2)LOTS and LOTS of bubbles (way to much water).
     
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  16. LevelupShaves

    LevelupShaves Well-Known Member

    Personally I face lather and for me the lather is right when the brush starts to slide effortlessly across my face and has kind of a yogurt consistency. If it starts to feel too thick like a cream cheese consistency then I add water if it's runny and water like I add soap.


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  17. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    I tried to follow the advice in this thread when I shaved today but don't know if I'm doing things correctly as I actually if anything I had more tugging of the hairs and more irritation than usual with a stinging sensation above my upper lip which gets worse when I smile. I also have these red patches above my lip that I have had for about two years that seemed to be reducing a bit and getting better that are starting to look more noticeable again with each shave.

    Again, I think the problem is that I am trying to apply the suggestions here that require a subjective interpretation of things (e.g., "slickness", "glide") and I think my interpretation of what slickness means and so on is wrong so I just keep doing the wrong thing.

    Is there some type of objective of way of determining that you have good lather that does not leave room for interpretation?
     
  18. macaronus

    macaronus Sir Nice-a-Lot

    Have you watched the Youtube vids of Mantic59? => *click* <=

    Mantic's video's have helped me a lot when I started DE shaving!
     
  19. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    It actually sounds like it may be one of two things...
    A) poor technique
    2) the wrong blade/razor combo for you
     
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  20. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    OK.

    It's been almost two years of this and I really don't think I'm any closer to figuring this out. I might just try going back to electric shaving, although I had even worse ingrown hairs when I tried that the last time, strangely. I just keep going back and forth.
     

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