https://www.kickstarter.com/project...zor-and-razor-blades-shaving-pe/posts/1951391 I was one of the ones amongst to choose for the SS option but looks like aint gonna happen... Here is the part that he encourages people to stick with this KS and get the current razor so in future if they can actually produce SS version via MIM process, he pretty much says get the current version now, don't ask for refund and if the SS ever happens you will get colossal discount.... Here is the puzzling quote: However, we would encourage any backers interested in the Stainless Steel Model T to retain their pledge on this campaign, as we’ll be offering backers of this campaign a colossal discount on any Stainless Steel Model T we’re ultimately able to manufacture. To be honest the Model T changed so many times during this KS + delays and even now they are expecting delivery October-November for the current model... There is no way Im sticking with this one, lesson be learned I will never again join KS. Im asking refund, at least I ride it out till the end and didn't gave up on them.
Just looked at it. Bummer. Can you switch over to the chrome? That looks pretty awesome. On second thought not sure I'd go $99 for chrome. I have the 6s and 6c. And like them both. I do wish they would drip the marketing that speaks to saving money with de shaving.
I dropped, too, for a number of reasons. Each "update" contains more spin than new information (aside from the delays) with every other sentence terminated with an exclamation mark. The effusive praise for the plating seems to me an attempt to placate those troubled by the use of Zamac parts (spin). And many folks came on board when the razor design called for SS, sans Zamac, and to now tell those folks to get what they signed up for, they'd have to sign up for another kickstarter seems unfair to me. (I was not one of those folks). Frankly, I'm tired of the drama with this company. Either they're amazingly inept or they've been somewhat disingenuous this entire journey. Personally, I think it's a little more of the latter with a healthy dose of the former. Just make a razor and sell it, like everyone else, including Supply Razor (uses Kickstarter, too), Colonial, Hawk, etc.
What were the pre and post production prices of these razors. Not that I would buy one, but the Stainless sounds nice.
I dropped out the second they announced announced the change from the brass, back to the zamak. Not gonna go anywhere near that price for pot metal. Sorry for you guys who hung in there hoping they would get it sorted through, 'cause it would have been a cool razor.
Such is the life of a manufacturer. Design goals vs. capability vs cost. I applaud Gareth, too. You know, Gareth could've opted for producing and releasing a truly sub-optimal product. So, far he hasn't done that. I have the 6S and 6C and I am very, very satisfied with the performance and quality of these razors. I will be getting the Model T in white chrome and I expect that it will be just as good. It doesn't matter to me that he isn't using all stainless steel for his first manufacturing attempt. I you really have to have stainless, then you might look at Above-The-Tie. But, then again, they are 2x the price. He is using zinc in some parts because the manufacturing process isn't capable of doing what he wants for a price that you (or I) will pay. He also used zinc in the 6C and, I think, 6S (the cap, I believe). Gillette used zinc in that 80 year old three piece that you have in your drawer. It still works and still shines up nice. So, zinc might not last until the next ice age, but you and I won't care by then. I am going to stay in. There are a lot a bogus Kickstarter campaigns, but I think this one is worthy. Rockwell deserves some love as I am concerned. I think the Model T looks like an awesome razor and I will probably buy the stainless one when he gets it done. Rockwell (Gareth, in particular) has outstanding customer service and support and Gareth has tried to really hard to get a quality product to consumers at a price that isn't insane. It is not a inexpensive razor, but it is worth what he is charging in my opinion. But, if it is not for you, then I totally understand. It's all good. If Henry Ford had his way then we would all be driving exactly the same thing ("You can have any color you like, as long as it is black").
I'm staying in as well. Gareth has proved time after time that he delivers. What is going to happen when the T comes out and is a hit? If I opt out, I'll be losing money on the new purchase after having waited so long.
I said this on another forum, but I'll repeat it here... let the Model T story serve as an example to those who say that Gillette should come out with a reissue of the Fatboy.
I just dropped a couple days ago at the last update when it said the stainless was not going to happen. I haven't gotten the refund yet but I'm sure it's coming (full price minus 10% kickstarter fees). I certainly didn't NEED the razor (I have tons of razors including many slims and fatboys) but wanted to support them because they are good guys, ANY modern adjustable made with "made for generations" types of materials deserves to be supported, and the Rockwell 6s has changed my life in terms of shaving. The Model T looks fantastic and I'm sure it will be successful for them. IMHO had they not gone with the "scoop" type doors and gone with doors that resembled the slim or Krona, the doors could have been stamped out of brass or MIM'd. 6c, definitely is zamac. I'm pretty sure the 6s is all SS, including the cap.
FUBAR GENTS......... READ BETWEEN THE LINES! How can anyone read this statement and not be concerned? Even yet, maintain brand loyalty for being charged at a 10% clip if you decide to take your refund for a product you will not even receive?! Doesn't make sense. Don't care how you slice it. This campaign has been funded 2-3 times over the capitol needed since May of 2016! Gentleman, can't anyone see this? Are you walking blind and don't care that Rockwell has taken your $$$ and has financed a proposed production of an item that is constantly delayed and put on hold because of production tolerance jargon bs spin? Because that's what it is. Make no mistake about it. You're being naive. KS does not refund money, it's a statement on how their fund raising campaigns work. If you get reimbursed (minus 10%) it is all from Rockwell. Fine, still doesn't hide the fact that at the end, they are in the business of making money. Bottom line. Massive discount for hanging on and being an uber supporter/backer? Read below from their Campaign fund site and news updates. If you still don't see a situation gone bad and potentially might get worse, then maybe your fine with them keeping your $$$ whether they produce or not..... Stainless Steel Model T As some of you may know, we've been exploring the option to manufacture an alternative version of the Model T out of stainless steel using CNC (computer numerical control) for a small subset of backers that were interested in a stainless steel option. After extensive exploration of options by our engineers and manufacturers both domestic and abroad we’ve found CNC for the 14 applicable parts to be simply prohibitively expensive. We’ve engaged a MIM specialist firm to better understand if there are small tweaks we could make to the Model T design files that would make it “manufacturable” via metal injection moulding at some point in the future. However, at this point, any possible Stainless Steel Model T would be rolled out in a separate campaign so we could properly gauge interest. However, we would encourage any backers interested in the Stainless Steel Model T to retain their pledge on this campaign, as we’ll be offering backers of this campaign a colossal discount on any Stainless Steel Model T we’re ultimately able to manufacture. We understand there are some passionate shaving enthusiasts that are backers of this campaign, and we’re eager to do whatever it takes to eventually make your “dream razor” - a twist-to-open, fully adjustable, fully stainless steel safety razor! ~~~ Thank you for continuing have our back! Please reach out to us at info@rockwellrazors.com if you have any questions about production before the next update on August 25th Gareth Co-Founder, Rockwell Razors
I can understand the concern and I don't blame people wanting their money back on the model T. I also don't understand what is so difficult to achieve as this has been done before by other manufacturers. My TTO adjustable FatBoy works fine after more than 50 years in servise. On the other hand, there might be conciderations we are not aware of with the production as costs have to be factored in and the bottom line for Gareth is to make a bit of money after the T has hit the market. Past experience with Rockwell has been stellar and every supporter has been satisfied with the 6S which IMHO is a great SS razor to have at a good price. I have waited this long and waiting a bit longer will not kill me as long as we know our money less 10% can be retrieved at any one time. Unforeseeable complications will always be present in the design and implementation of a new product, so given the past history, I'm willing to give Gareth the benefit of the doubt, as these delays cannot continue forever. I do have other razors to use until then.
I agree and have posted my concern over their constant spin. But the reason I pulled out is over the current Model T timelines. They claim to now be in production (since July), yet they will not start shipping committed razors until September and complete shipping of backer orders until November (if even those dates hold). Four months to produce just the backers razors seems like a very long time to me for a company supposedly already in production. I think they still have problems and at this point, after hearing several months of what's clearly spin to me, I opted out and took the 10% hit. In their defense, they had my refund to me within a day.
I got the refund 10 minutes after I posted my comment on KS, just noticed that today the refund reached my bank and no 10% was charged, got the full refund. While waiting for the Model T and hoping it will deliver I acquired 5 different Gillette Adjustables: Fat Boy, Slim, Black Beauty long and short handle and Super Adjustable for total cost of $140. Since the Model T can not be produced to be all SS or all Brass then I have no need for it.
The problem with comparing the manufacture of the Model T to the manufacture of the Fatboy is one of comparing apples to oranges. The Fatboy represented a 50+ years of Gillette experience with making DE razors and an investment in specialized equipment (e.g., brass stamping and custom dies). These costs were amortized over long years of use and were shared by multiple product lines. By comparison, the Model T is made from castings specifically developed for this product. Also, Gillette could expect to sell hundreds of thousands of the Fatboy whereas Gareth would probably be floored to sell a hundredth as many Model T's. I applaud Gareth for what he doing in trying to make a quality version of what is probably the most complex type of adjustable razor, literally from scratch. The reality is that just because people did it 60 years ago, doesn't make it easy or cheap to do now.
I finally got my refund yesterday via PayPal with 8% taken out after I sent an email asking where it was. Kickstarter takes 8% off the top once the Kickstarter has closed which they are passing along to those who want refunds. I don't blame them for that. For those that are worried about delays or deadlines, don't. Rockwell may blow a deadline but they will definitely deliver and they will communicate every step of the way. If Rockwell wasn't reputable, NOBODY would be able to back out of the kickstarter after it's closed. Rockwell is doing that on their own. After the initial 6s debacle and the lengths they went to to deliver a quality razor, I have zero doubts they will deliver on their campaign. The delays are sometimes caused by them being overly cautious so they don't have another 6s type debacle to deal with. That's a good thing. If you want to see a Kickstarter razor and see what blown deadlines are, check out the Beluga razor. That guy took a couple hundred thousand dollars (is STILL taking pre-orders on his website), abandoned the project, stopped communicating a year ago and nobody received anything. And in case you're curious, he still logs on to Kickstarter regularly. -Mc
I get your point. And I won't go on a debate over production, materials and costs analytics. That's a deep, deep hole to climb down too. Here is my point. You have backer/supporters such as yourself and thousands more. Funds are raised for a product that will be a modern razor styled and produced after the great Gillette Adjustable TTO's. Everyone says "Hooray! Hooray!" myself included. That's what the wetshaving community has been calling for since Gillette ceased production of their Super Adjustable in 1988. Now, an announcement is made that it will be produced out of SS and Brass and it spreads like wildfire throughout the shaving community that it's going to happen. We will get a great razor at a great price manufactured out of great materials that will last a lifetime. You know when this announcement was made? Early 2016, and funds were raised a few months later to finance this endeavor a few times over. Fast forward to now, almost 18 months after its announcement, 15 months ago when the fund raiser claimed it to be a success and the project is a go and guess what? Still no definitive answers on anything! Basically holding a community (wet shavers) hostage over a product that does not even exist only on drawings, schematics and prototypes. That is my beef and argument.
The problem, I suspect, is inherent in the entire Kickstarter concept. Basically, someone comes along with an idea and (maybe) a prototype. They then get a bunch of people to put up money up front so they can figure out how to actually build the thing profitably. At that point, they have to navigate the waters of manufacturing, outsourcing, and logistics while trying to keep things on some kind of schedule. With the Model T, we had a case of an announcement followed by a backlash over the original design. Gareth promised changes the ultimately proved unworkable. A segment of the community rejected that idea and wanted SS which Gareth committed to try and produce. Now that has proven to be currently unworkable. One could almost argue that the biggest failure was in trying to please everyone as opposed to just saying "look, this is what we can build at this time" and be done with it.
Your point is well taken. But, let me point out that we have seen this and been down this road before with Rockwell. Remember the first 2 production runs with the 6s? Especially the horrendous first run? Rockwell having to replace thousands of defective razor heads and such. It's all been documented and one can do a search on that whole debacle. Yes, Gareth & Rockwell came through in doing the right thing, and I commend them on that. Now this? Think about it. They are practically going through the same thing again. You think Rockwell would have learned from that disastrous experience, yet here we are again on that precipitous edge of broken promises and potentially not getting the product right, again. Let me rephrase that about the broken promises. Rockwell blew right through those with stating that the razors will be ready months ago. And there have been a couple more deadlines blasted since then. And I'm not speaking about the all SS version. This was just for the regular one with Brass, Zamak and SS components for $99. We know things can and will happen when we are talking about producing products for consumers and especially on a smaller scale as compared to the powerhouse production juggernaut that Gillette was in yesteryears gone by. But to not learn from previous mistakes and mishaps is where I say that a line has to be drawn, regardless of how Rockwell is trying to keep backers and potential customers in the loop and showing transparency in their push to produce a product. Me personally, I could not back or trust someone anymore after a trail of broken promises and guarantees is left in their wake. Just my $0.02.....
As I recall, the biggest issues with the 6S launch was placing too much trust in the word of the suppliers and not being hands-on through the whole process. As a result, the initial supplier shipped beautiful test articles but never mentioned that he had performed additional machining on them and shipped much more rough items for the actual production run. Similarly, I seem to recall that the later issue with machining of the caps was a case of a vendor assigning the job to less skilled workers. I do think that Gareth learned from all this as the Kickstarter for the 6C went off very smoothly. With the Model T, it can be argued that Rockwell really is starting all over from scratch. The Model T is a completely different different type of razor requiring much more precise manufacturing than the 6S which is, ultimately, just a three-piece razor. From what I've read, I'd say that Gareth has learned how to get suppliers to provide a quality product but has run afoul of how hard this particular product is to produce economically.
