Pondering the DE2SE - to Kick or not to Kick?

Some months ago, we were yakking about bringing back some classics and sort of stumbled across a hybrid idea I called the DE2SE.

The idea was to create a SE shaver that uses DE blades. I hoped to copy the geometry from the well reviewed Shake Sharp razor,leaving out the shaking part. Also, to save on the machining, my guy eliminated the typical threaded posts and copied that crazy little two-ended screw like used on The Standard Razor.

I've been sitting on a quote for about a month, because it was higher than I had hoped. However, rather than letting the dream die, I thought I would return to the shaverati to see what you guys think. The good folks on Kickstarter note that, statistically, projects have greater success if the pledge amount is $40 or less. <sigh> My guy came in at $38.00 with 1,250 backers. That does not include a handle**. Kickstarter adds fees of about 10%.

At first, I was disheartened. I thought the numbers too ambitious. But then I kept looking at The Rockwell
and had to ask "why not?" It had roughly 2000 backers for an average backing of about USD $80 ea. (NOTE: pledge amounts were skewed). I next worried that those of us who like SE geometry are a minority, but... the unique (odd?) Beluga made its goal, too! That was roughly 1750 backers at $110 ea.!

OK, maybe there are enough of the RAD-afflicted to pull this off. I was allowing my doubt to dissuade me from putting the project together, but I want to relight this candle! Do *you* guys still think using DE blades in a SE styled razor is a good idea?

So here's my dilemma: what handle? I originally thought the handle could be a "stretch" goal, because a true enthusiast would have handles aplenty. I now think a handle is, if not mandatory, then at least de rigueur.

So what options for the handle? I need help choosing, but am going back to the well for pricing on:


1. Chinese import - fun or gaudy? Some may not like fat handle.
2. Hollow handle - Though some have criticised its light weight, I like my FaTip Grande quite well. Could save a few bucks.
3. Classic style - something knurled with moderate heft, like the Utopia...
4. Bulldog style - the fans are out there, but will add $$.

Special note: My guy suggested using NAK tool steel for the head rather than any of the flavors of stainless. He says it machines quickers and polishes beautifully. Any concerns?

Even though the Kickstarted razors above launched with big price tags, I really want to cap the average pledge amount at $75.00. I do not necessarily want to impose this restriction, but it is an instinct I cannot shake. Opinions on total price, anyone? (<— or is that question just asking for it? <sigh>)

ALSO... I can probably produce a pencil sketch for the "artist's rendition" and scan it. There will be a 3-D CAD model before it is all over, but that is paid for by the funding. However, does anyone want to contribute some computer juju to the eventual Kickstarter presentation? I feel I can handle the spreadsheets and costing, as well as ad copy and video scripts(?). I can scan and convert to SVG, but my overall image processing is rudimentary. I would also gladly defer to anyone with real graphic design talent for making the KS page look good. Want to be the star of the video? If you have a talent to contribute, please send a PM.


Finally... I want to note that the only compensation I hope to get out of a successful KS project is a single DE2SE razor. I hope to set the project goal at break-even. If we exceed the goal, then maybe a stretch goal (TBD). If it goes viral, I have some thoughts about donations!

As always, I appreciate input from The Den. Thanks for being a cool group!

 

If I may, I'd suggest considering a hexagonal handle, as seen on the Merkur 1904 models; for me, they offer both a little bit better grip security, and enough of unusual factor to stand out a bit.

 

To answer the simple question of handle...a classic handle (Utopia) might have the most broad appeal.

Pondering and intrigued. Will start reading the background material. Thumbs up!

 

I agree with Chris, the Classic (Utopia) handle would be my favorite.

 

I love SE razors so this would be cool.

I say either a 1904, a Barber Pole, or a classic knurled.

 

I'm wondering if you really need to make a handle.
For instance, I think a lot of people bought just the head when the Mongoose razor came out because they wanted to keep their cost down and wanted to use it on some handle they already had.
If you make the thread generic enough it might be an option to, at least initially, just produce a line of interesting razor heads?

 

Innovation is fine, but how about just making the frikin thing out of something like titanium..stronger than steal and absolutely rust proof. Personally I wouldn't even mind good old brass...

 

Gary, I had forgotten all about this stuff. Thanks for reminding us!

My guy has gotten a little caught in the holidays, but said he would send me an updated quote today. I haven't seen the entire package quoted, so still can't crunch the numbers for the whole enchilada. However, I think several DE2SE options might be feasible!

DE2SE head
Classic or hex handle
polished steel or black molyresin (matte) finish

He tells me that knurling on the handle is super easy to machine and cheaper than a polished finish. Go figure.

 

I'm definitely interested in one. I'd love a shake sharp razor if the price was right so I imagine as long as the price is right here I'd get one as well.

 

more than interested here!

 

I nagged my guy before the holidays and also this week (he was very busy with "real" orders — the kind that earn him money — so I can be patient!), but he managed to leave town before sending me a quote. Dang it!

Anyhoo... I asked the artist for a couple of sketches. He's not very good, but this is what he produced during my lunch break today. I guess they are worth what they cost me.

The DE2SE head assembly:


It looks a little like the Shake Sharp, right? If it doesn't, blame the no talent artist!

The key feature of this sketch is the wedge built into the baseplate. To give the DE2SE head a SE shave angle and still fit regular DE handles, the angle has to come from the baseplate. I've sketched an EJ style hybrid safety bar (no, those are not toe nails!), figuring it is the compromise solution for the "bar vs. OC" crowd.

You may notice the midline ridge on the baseplate. This come from the Gillette New and will precisely orient the DE blade. I hope to capture the blade ends, rather than have the little ears stick out.

Finally, to take significant cost out of machining the head, we are borrowing that goofy "set screw" approach from the Standard Razor. It isn't my top choice, but maybe we can Loctite the screw in place to address that screw coming out of the "wrong" end. This approach saves money and keeps the head suitable to other handles.

The bottom might look something a little bit like this...unless it doesn't...


Feedback, anyone?

ALSO... I am still recruiting project helpers. I think the project could use an artist upgrade, for sure! (Once we kick, we'll have funding for real 3D models! Won't that be grand? )

 

As long as I do not scalp myself it looks like it would be fine. Mild. medium or agressive?

 

I hope it will shave just like the Shake Sharp. So what... a very efficient medium?

I haven't shaved with my Shake Sharp in over three months (I just got it back from loan yesterday!). I'm playing "30-day Rule" with @Bama Samurai and the boys, so won't know for 23 more days. I REALLY want to use it, though! My shaving lessons learned in November while taking on the FaTip Grande may have altered my overall shaving perspective. I remember the Shake Sharp as medium but may now find it medium to mild. I just don't know!

Funny how your perspective can change, isn't it?

 

I am really excited that this project is still alive, and I'm likely be a supporter at up to $75, though of course cheaper is better. I'd go for a head only option if one was offered, but I think you're right that there has to at least be an option of getting it with a handle. Utopia style would be fine, though I consider it a bit too long. Maybe a long handle and short handle option?

Re: materials, I don't know anything about the steel that was recommended to you, but there's got to be some reason others aren't using it, no?

 

Not really. You might be surprised to learn how much of engineering and manufacturing is just habit or "playing it safe." We've had "lunch and learn" meetings just to educate our R&D guys on methods or materials that can take cost of of the product without sacrificing quality... sometimes even improving it!

I sent my machinist pics of "standard" round handles, bulldog handles, and hex handles. I asked for quotes on standard and hex. I hope that the price breaks will come in such a way as to allow backers to choose. However, the options may come in "blocks."

For example, let's say 250 pcs was an economic break on a hex handle. If only 200 people signed up for a hex handle and everyone else wanted classic, the the hex guys are out of luck. Further, if 300 people want hex handles, maybe the last 50 would be out of luck.

Without a real quote, this is all speculation. That's why I am really chomping to get that quote!

 

This project is so cool. I hope something tangible comes from it, I'd really like to own a SE style DE razor. I want a shake sharp but whew they are pricey.

 

I have been gently nagging my machinist for a few weeks now. He has been buried since Christmas and is getting embarrassed because he only needs 10 minutes to wrap up the quote. However, I also know that he is quoting around 1300 different drawings that represent a potential million dollars a year in new business. He is working some serious hours and still has to tend the farm animals after a 12 hour day. I have a lot of forgiveness for some "maybe money" connected to an idea for a Kickstarter project.

HOWEVER... I also have what I think is exciting news! Driving home from work today I thought of a way to make the DE2SE adjustable. I called my machinist (who is also a mechanical engineer) and he agreed it would work and add negligible cost. Man, I am still stoked!

<sigh>

Now is just waiting. He agreed it is OK for me to send a daily e-mail reminder until he delivers the quote. I keep count in the daily e-mail. Today was #3.

Now all I need to do — besides politely nagging — is remember: the oxen are slow but the earth is patient.

NOTE: Patience isn't my most developed virtue! (Wait!... I have virtues?... )

 

Sounds intriguing. Still hope to see something of this

 

This ROUGH QUOTE just in!



** I assume that the USPS will NOT donate 1250 "free" flat rate boxes. Must investigate.

I have many more questions than answers, but it looks like we could launch the basic KS package (which includes personalization !?!) for $70 per DE2SE! That's fairly competetive for a stainless steel razor, right? I guess my main concern of the moment is the assumption that 1250 ppl would back the project.

Howzzat?