what model vintage razor to bring back?

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by maltedmilk, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. Nate1976

    Nate1976 New Member

    I don't think plain brass would go over well. Neither do I think aluminum would either, it's just to light. I like the stainless idea, but that adds costs. I do like the idea of making several different heads that could fit on a couple well made handles. So you would buy the heads and the handles separate. This could give people different combinations at a lower cost and allow them to only buy what they want.
     
  2. maltedmilk

    maltedmilk Well-Known Member

    Article Team
    I met with my guy last week. He looked, but made very few comments. He's kinda like that though. I call him a "soaker" because he has to soak up new ideas. He can't be rushed.

    HOWEVER... I was reflecting on this thread and my current interest (learning to use my Shake Sharp). I called him about making a "Shake Sharp hybrid head." He made a couple of noises, but needs to soak some more. He did say he wants to see some razors again, so that's a good sign!

    Here's where I think we could go... Copy the Shake Sharp geometry, but leave out the hone. Make the head thread onto standard handles. You get a SE geometry that uses DE blades.

    My buddy said you get some advantages when machining brass. The material is a little cheaper, but you save on machine time. For similar reasons, I would explore replacing the safety bar with the "semi-combs" on the EJDE89.

    For attaching the cap, I think I would prefer the post-in-keyhole design over my bakelight's tab-and-through-hole method. Skip the integrated hinge, though. I don't feel like I am about to lose the cap and it will save processing cost.

    Because I want one and am willing to pay something for it, I figure other SE fans might be willing to try it too. The venue for putting your money where your mouth is is Kickstarter! I called him today and pitched that idea.

    He's a little bit interested (that equates to a little excited for normal people!). I will be loaning him my Shake Sharp and my EJDE89 so he can study. If he gets me some ballpark quotes, I think I can cobble a Kickstarter offer. We could have a brass tier and a stainless tier, so the funding would pick the material.

    What do you think so far?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
    PLANofMAN and macaronus like this.
  3. galhatz

    galhatz Member

    +1
    A Damaskeene would be nice wouldn't it?
    Also, a Gem.Jr Lather Catcher
     
    HoosierTrooper likes this.
  4. HolyRollah

    HolyRollah BaconLord

    There is something I find very appealing about a modern version that true to the original.
    I could see a demand for a limited edition razor, produced to commemorate a special vintage Gillette.

    How about a modern remake done exquisitely in all stainless of this limited run razor: 1920-era Gillette Big Fellow, a 3-piece razor complete with wooden case and blade holder?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Darkbulb

    Darkbulb Cookie Hoarder

    I think what you are doing now is creating a new, unproven razor as opposed to re-create old proven ones.
    With that you may gain some interest but also lose others.
     
    maltedmilk likes this.
  6. feeltheburn

    feeltheburn Well-Known Member

    I like the modern take on a shake sharp idea. I like the geometry of SE razors but I really don't like any of the available blades for SEs. So using DE blades would be a plus for me. I don't see anything wrong with something a little different. The market's full of good 3-piece razors already. You'd probably have to do a market analysis but my gut says either way you might be looking at selling around the same number of razors.
     
  7. HoosierTrooper

    HoosierTrooper Steve-less in Indiana

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Jasman

    Jasman Well-Known Member

    Sheraton TTO, assuming I can't vote for bakelite.
     
  9. Uncle Brian

    Uncle Brian Active Member

    1. The GEM 1912 is a great razor looking razor and gives good shaves.
    2. Being able to use a DE blade would maybe increase its appeal but by how much?
    3. Brass is good too I had a Valet that was all brass and unplated and when polished it looked nice.
    4. You are still looking at a small market but if it was economical to do a run of 100 I think they could be sold, no idea about what might happen after that ... more limited runs maybe.
    5. What price range are you shooting for?
    6. Can we have some photos of the Shake Sharp please? Or is this good enough :)[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    maltedmilk likes this.
  10. macaronus

    macaronus Sir Nice-a-Lot

    I'd clean forgotten about the Shake Sharp! Excellent idea! An SE with DE blades. Just as good as bananas!
    evilminion03.gif
     
    PLANofMAN and maltedmilk like this.
  11. maltedmilk

    maltedmilk Well-Known Member

    Article Team
    PUT YOUR RAZOR WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!

    OK, gents, here is the sitrep in bullets:
    » Met with my guy and handed him my Shake Sharp, a Gillette New, and EJ89.
    » Proposed my idea of the modern Shake Sharp hybrid.
    » Informed the machinist of Kickstarter.com and spitballed several broad approaches, including "let the backers' votes decide."
    » Dude is now interested and will begin working up quotes.
    » We have one of three potential models to pitch as a Kickstarter campaign.

    SO... I think our Kickstart should offer three choices to potential backers. As the initial spark for this crazy idea (and assuming my guy conquers the design challenges ...(he will)), the modern spin of a Shake Sharp is Type A. Types B and C are up for grabs. Top votes go to people who can provide an accurate CAD file of their desired razor OR provide a loaner for reverse engineering. :shocked003:

    Yeppers, it is "put up or shut up" time. Tinkle or get off the pot. (<— Yes, I just typed "tinkle." This is a family forum, after all!)

    I've been scanning to Kickstarter projects and have some ideas on how to structure. I need some volume and costing information from my guy, but know how to approach the spreadsheet model for structuring the project. The shaverati can vote with their wallets, which will determine if this idea materializes.

    I told my guy that I thought the piece price target should be $40. Ya gotta start somewhere.

    I will need to read all the fine print at Kickstarter, but propose that missing the goal would mean zero razors and 100% refund to all backers. However, there may be some costs buried in the details. If so, I think we would return 100% less real (documented!) costs.

    Other than loaners, interested parties could contribute to the Kickstarter effort! How? Photographs, for one. Some of you guys ROCK at photography (I stole one of Darkbulb's pics and made it my wallpaper)! Some of you have written excellent articles that could be part of the projects info packet. Finally, anyone reading this could be a backer.

    A little bit vague so far, but how's that for a direction?
     
    PLANofMAN likes this.
  12. Uncle Brian

    Uncle Brian Active Member

    Sounds good ... I really find the idea of having something that looks like a GEM 1912 but will take a Feather blade to be very exciting. Is that sort of what a Shake is?

    I have cured my RAD and now only own a Super Speed G-1 and a E3 Schick injector ... not much help huh?

    $40 for the head sounds fine is there a plan for a handle or do we just buy a Weber Bulldog?
     
  13. maltedmilk

    maltedmilk Well-Known Member

    Article Team
    Here is THE thread on Shake Sharps —> click <— My eternal gratitude to PlanOfMan!

    Well, my crazy idea is all "suggestions" and in the hands of my machinist. I've had a couple more thoughts, trying to take cost out of the machining opeations.

    My current thoughts on the DE-to-SE (Shake Sharp inspired) hybrid:
    ¤ Use a regular 3 piece razor design (cap with threaded post which extends through head into handle). This is a departure from Shake Sharp.
    ¤ Copy the easiest blade centering feature that secures the DE blade
    ¤ Copy the Shake Sharp geometry - includes head-to-handle angle; cap-to-blade curvature; blade exposure; blade gap; distance to safety bar (or length of combs)
    ¤ Use easiest-to-machine safety (teeth from New or EJ89 or safety bar from Shake Sharp or Tech).
    ¤ Must capture the Shake Sharp blade deflection

    I need to bracket in on real costs before I can predict whether the handle is included (in my version of this potential project). Looking at several Kickstarter projects, I can see the base goal NOT including a handle but certainly a handle is included in a stretch goal. I've got several fuzzy thoughts on how to structure the whole package.

    CLARIFICATION: When you participate in a Kickstarter project as a backer (the guys who give the money), no funds are taken unless the project meets it's stated goal. There is minimal financial risk.

    NOTE: The risk is that the project makes its goal (takes your money) but the creator might fail to deliver. To give you guys a small measure of background, I work as a buyer of precision machined parts for a mega-corp. Our division makes multi-million dollar medical devices. My employer spends a couple of million dollars a year with the machine shop. For employment reasons, I will stay well clear of any financial gain from any project. I am trying to influence a guy to launch a project from his company so I may benefit by being a backer and paying for said product just like everyone else. I will follow all company guidelines for 100% compliance. Uh... we don't need any more lawyerspeak than that, do we?

    OTHER MODEL OPTIONS: For the proposed Kickstarter project, I can see offering three different models (I think I said that already). The DE2SE is just one on the list. If the project meets its goal, it will produce at least one of the three models. The base goal model will be chosen by "votes" received (backers will select). However, if it is a wildly successful project, it might produce more than one razor. I am pushing one idea, but I was serious about anyone else wanting to promote their preferred razor! Since you likely do not have a 3-D CAD model to send, then somebody will have to loan a razor.

    (The hardest thing for me to figure out is how big the specialty razor market is! When we congregate here in cyberspace, it looks like a lot of us. In the real world.... we may be fewer in number than we think! That's why I think Kickstarter may be the way to go. It is also why we will need some rather detailed financial modelling to put together the project. ... I have volunteered to work on the spreadsheets.... gratis, of course! Didn't I say I was going to be 100% compliant?)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
    PLANofMAN and macaronus like this.
  14. Uncle Brian

    Uncle Brian Active Member

    Head only sounds ok and I like the direction it's going. If it fits onto a std handle then I think most of us will cope.

    I would think the market is small but world wide that could still be a lot of people.
     
    maltedmilk likes this.
  15. Darkbulb

    Darkbulb Cookie Hoarder

    This made me start to think...now that 3D printers sell for under 3,000 dollars and you can get a 3D scanner for about the same price or less.... I wonder how realistic it would be to make 3D plastic replicas of famous razors and sell for $25 dollars each :)
     
    fram773 and maltedmilk like this.
  16. Uncle Brian

    Uncle Brian Active Member

    If it's not a Shake Sharp that is being reproduced as there is no hone and no need to shake it ... isn't it just like a GEM but taking a DE blade? There are a few SE razors that are well designed and maybe even lend themselves better to a DE setup. I have seen images of some very cool looking ones but again we come back to "is it going to sell?"
    Still a very interesting idea that I'm looking forward to seeing happen :happy088:
     
  17. maltedmilk

    maltedmilk Well-Known Member

    Article Team
    Yep! That's why I am toying with naming it DE2SE. Why Shake Sharp rather than modelling some other SE? Because of PlanOfMan's thread on Shake Sharp and no other reason.

    BTW... Ryan has magnanimously offered to loan his later model Shake Sharp to the reverse engineering cause! HUZZAH!! :wave:
    I expect that we can get the modelling started before having the loaner in hand, though. I hope to have the rough quote numbers in a week or two (Dude has a business to run, so real orders take priority over Kickstarter proposals <sigh>).

    A teaser for the curious... There may be a cost advantage to using a material called NAK55. It is like stainless, not prone to rust, but machines 50% faster and polishes to a shiny finish. This will go into the model and could be part of the project... maybe.:signs021:
     
    PLANofMAN, Uncle Brian and fram773 like this.
  18. Jasman

    Jasman Well-Known Member

    Good show, Ryan, for the Shake Sharp loaner!
     
  19. Uncle Brian

    Uncle Brian Active Member

    :wave::wave::wave:

    exciting stuff
     
  20. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    I have always championed bringing back lesser known designs that just plain "worked." I was hoping to see one of the razor manufacturers make a new Shake Sharp razor with a bevy of features, adjustability, ceramic hones, sectional handles, etc.

    I see now that is/was the wrong direction to be looking. I should have been looking for a way to have one cheaply made, of quality material, that incorporates the best features of the razor.

    Bravo.
     
    maltedmilk and Tdmsu like this.

Share This Page