YouTube videos all say 30°, not "ride the cap" -- why?

Discussion in 'Shave School' started by RazorMackham, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. RazorMackham

    RazorMackham Member

    So... while spreading the DE/wet shaving "gospel" to friends & co-workers, I've realized it would be really helpful to point people to a high quality YouTube video that demonstrates proper shaving technique. You know, one that makes it look cool, fun & safe... not sketchy, tedious or dangerous.

    As is par for the course on YouTube, DE shaving tutorial videos run the gamut: from crappy quality (irritating voices, annoying music, garish digital titles, lousy camera work, bad advice or confusing explanations), to infomercial-glitzy (high production value, but aggressively pushing a specific product line), and lots of stuff in between.

    The one thing all the halfway-decent videos I've seen have in common? They all recommend a 30° angle, rather than directing people to "ride the cap," as is the overwhelming recommendation on TSD forums. I don't know about you guys, but with my razors (Maggard v3 & slant, Old Type OC, Goodwill, Tech), riding the cap seems to result in something roughly in the range of 45°-60°, not 30°. A couple of the videos say 30°, but demonstrate an angle that looks (to me) more like 45°.

    Question 1: If 30° isn't right, why it such pervasively-dispensed advice? Of course, I believe it's supposed to mean a 30° blade angle, not necessarily a 30° handle, since different heads bend blades into different angles... but none of the videos I've seen have referenced that distinction.

    Question 2: Has anyone seen a decent quality YouTube video that recommends riding the cap instead of 30°? I feel like that advice is more likely to result in a good first experience for new shavers... less chance of nicks & burn with a wider range of blades, IME.

    FWIW, the video I've enjoyed the most so far is this one, made in the style of old short films... but it recommends multiple WTG passes, not XTG/ATG, and of course tells you to use 30°.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  2. PLAla

    PLAla Bit Shy of a Full Puck

    The videos of Mantic59 (our own @mantic) are exceptional. There are other quality videos online. You just have to sift through and find the ones that work for you. I learned a lot from Nick Shaves and Geofatboy, as examples.

    Riding the cap would have made a big difference for me because I always thought the angle measurement was in reference to the handle. I now know it is in reference to blade angle. But that was never clear to me. Riding the cap works for all situations and is an easy phrase to remember when approaching a new or unfamiliar razor.

    I am sure that @Linuxguile and @Bama Samurai and many others can add much more to this discussion.
     
  3. Demidog

    Demidog Well-Known Member

    I almost think that this would be better answered by a psychologist. A person or group of people who present themselves as an authority on a topic start touting some fairly arbitrary methodology until it becomes a mantra that is adopted by the hordes of additional Youtubers making yet another tutorial video. In reality, nobody is taking measurements while shaving and even when I started out by using what I assumed was a 30° angle, I was doing more scraping than chopping.

    Your comment also reveals that not many people seem to think this through before stating it as evidenced by the fact that I've never seen anyone elaborate on whether they're referring to the angle of the blade or the handle. As you mentioned, most razors are different so even if they were to make a distinction, it wouldn't matter since different heads bend the blade to different degrees.

    Riding the cap is logical and it makes sense. It was a while until I found @Bama Samurai's post regarding riding the cap but prior to that, I had seen other people suggest holding the razor perpendicular to my face, lowering it until the blade made contact, and then maintaining that angle. That's essentially just a longer way of saying "ride the cap," so fortunately not everyone just automatically posits the 30° mantra whenever newbies come looking for advice. Of course I'm sure that they all mean well.

    At the end of the day, I think that the only universal advice is "your mileage may vary." Maybe 30° works for some guys. I know at least one guy who claims that he never rides the cap and he always applies pressure, yet he has never had problems. I just assume that the "30° angle" bit got propagated much like how a lot of people incorrectly say "could care less" - it doesn't really make sense but nobody questions it, and they just automatically repeat what they hear.
     
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  4. '65 G-Slim

    '65 G-Slim Well-Known Member

    I don't have a protractor, so my angle of attack is whatever cuts the whiskers & not my skin.
     
  5. RazorMackham

    RazorMackham Member

    So, found some interesting stuff googling for razor angles online... including the source of the image below, from this page.

    This is obviously a "riding the cap" primer... but note the actual angles, which I measured and added in red, using Photoshop. The handle angles were easy to measure and are pretty much dead-on... the blade angles were trickier to calculate, and of course I have no idea how good a job the person who drew this approximated how a head bends a blade.

    razorAngles.jpg

    Nearly every video I've seen has the shaver holding the razor at an angle similar to the one at the far right, and calls that 30°. My handle when riding the cap is much closer to the center photo... if anything, I think my angle is a even bit greater than 58° on some razors.

    Interesting to note that the linked page also "toes the party line" by saying you should "start with around 30 degrees blade angle," but then posts this graphic (without degree measurements) to demonstrate.

    Perhaps they just haven't worked out what 30° actually looks like in terms of razor position... unless they mean handle angle measured down after starting from the lefthand graphic (90° - 30° = 60°).

    That, of course, is not how anybody in the videos seems to think they're measuring... those that demonstrate are always "measuring" up, i.e. starting with the handle parallel to the skin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  6. PLAla

    PLAla Bit Shy of a Full Puck

    That's a great graphic. My angle with a DE was much closer to the far right picture, and that ain't good. I was able to correct it more towards the middle depiction for better results. I still think "ride the cap" even with injectors and SE razors, although injectors are almost foolproof as far as angle.
     
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  7. brit

    brit in a box

    all of my razors i use ;techs,new ,tto gillettes shave a little differently. cap on the face ,drop handle until blade cuts smoothly.so far so good.learned it here,great advice.
     
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  8. RazorMackham

    RazorMackham Member

    Yeah, those look really good content-wise... in particular, I looked at this one:


    @mantic, in that video your angle of course varies somewhat during your shave, but it seems like you're usually pretty much riding the cap... and after rotating the screenshot below so your cheek is roughly vertical, then measuring the angle, I again get ~58°. However, you verbally describe the correct angle as 30°, and don't actually describe the process of riding the cap.

    Untitled-1.jpg

    BTW, @mantic, I think your newer videos are way ahead of your intro videos in terms of production value... ex. better graphics with no sound effects, better music choices, etc..... maybe you can do an updated set of intro videos at some point? (hopeful grin)

    Oh, just found a newer video where you describe "riding the cap"! Cool.. this may become my new go-to video for newbies. Here's a link to the part where you describe it (auto time jump doesn't work on tapatalk... tapatalk folks will need to play the video and manually jump to 3:33)...
    video link

    I've seen some of theirs at some points... I'll take another pass through them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
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  9. gorgo2

    gorgo2 geezerhood

    I use the angle that most efficiently cuts whiskers with minimal discomfort. Don't ask what angle that is because it varies razor to razor...and I do believe it varies even from area to area of the same face (mine).

    YAMV

    Your Angle May Vary
     
  10. RetLEO-07

    RetLEO-07 likes his penguin deep fried, with pink sparkles

    +1 on Geofatboy, those were the videos I started with on this journey. It's sorta like pistol shooting. Took the beginner course(Geofatboy), then I came here and took the Gunsite Ranch course(Riding the Cap).
     
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  11. Bama Samurai

    Bama Samurai with Laser-like Focus

    Hence, I feel like riding the cap is a methodology, not a spec.
     
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  12. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    In some ways, I think I missed out. When I was learning to shave (with a DE), I was 15 in the 80's, and _nobody_ in my family used anything but an electric, or a disposable. I don't remember the time well, but I suspect that I planed my face more than once while teaching myself. I know I used an electric a lot as well :). I've given up the electrics, because if you're not perfectly clean, non-oily, dry, and use them at least once a day, they really don't work very well. The folks older than I that used DE's to start with probably had someone around to help (well, most of them), or at least laugh at their mistakes. The folks younger? Well, there's now YouTube :p (although the noise to signal ratio probably doesn't help)

    So, I knew what worked, and why, but never really put thought into it when applied to anything other than the single SuperSpeed I owned. If I put in a new blade, the first shave was "Put the razor against the face, go up and down until just feeling the blade, and shave. All other angles follow." (I probably picked that up because I used what blades were available. Early on, it was Schick, but there were _lots_ of various brands I moved through over the years. There was no guarantee they were the same width across the brands.)

    I'm not really complaining - I'm just glad that people don't have to go through that wasteland now. I'm also enjoying all the work people have put into building the _background_ behind everything.
     
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