I don't think rat's behind hair retains water as well as a badgers. It's not so much that there is a problem with the harvesting of hair as the way it's done. Maybe I'm a hypocrite but I think there are humane ways of doing it. Skinning a living creature isn't one of them. Now, about them burgers. I recommend Kansas City Steak burgers. Very delicious.
Unfortunately I live in a college town. We are actually the home of the most expensive Stop and Shop in the country. Were very proud of this. I just paid 8$ for 1.6lbs of 93% fat free chicken. I understand that its the problem with the harvesting and theyre are humane ways and messed up ways of dispatching an animal. Legally we have to do it nicely for our biology work. Anywho, the whole fuss is about badgers while nobody looks at any other aspect of their lives. Who says somebody didnt decapitate my steak with a chain saw or that it was in a cage no larger than its body for its entire life. Its not humane, but people seem to look the other way. I just think if people are getting so pissy over badger hair, they better call Jenifer Leather up and ask where they get the leather for their couches from, how the animal was dispatched, and whether it has any surviving relatives that you can write apology letters to.
Let's keep this civil folks. Some feel one way, some feel the other way. Ain't nothing gonna change that.
I think this has nothing to do at all with the animals dieing. We all know the hair comes off an animal that died. I think the issue is with how these animals might be treated. The video showed the coon dog being skinned alive, and suffering for a long time. This is unacceptable. Sure I love my steaks, and my leather recliner, but I am pretty sure the cows were not skinned alive, and left to die a slow painful death. Entirely different. I use my badger hair brushes same as I always have, but if I were to find out that the source was treating the animals this way, I would find another source. I really appreciate the dedication and work Jeremy is putting in to this.
I agree, its about how the animals are killed. But you dont know that cow wasnt inhumanely killed. Nor do you know your badger would. I think this thread should be locked and closed. These never end well.
Jay, I respect your opinion but so far, you are the only one getting defensive. I see no reason to lock and close this thread. I believe a civil discourse is still possible. But that's only my opinion, I"m not a mod.
Aw, JayKay, those of us who know you better also know that you're a softy at heart. Here's a quote from one of your posts over at that, ahem, other place: "When I was working at a vets office and we would put dogs to sleep, I would say its rather humane. Its painless. You put them to sleep before killing them. Often times everybody sits around petting and talking to the dog to make it feel comfortable. Its slightly sad but a nice process overall I'd say. Carrying that thing out after completely sucks though." JayKay, 04-24-2008, 04:29 PM Cheers Jeremy
I have done extensive and very detailed research over a long period of time covering a broad area of study. My research came to one very specific fact. Badger hair comes and is obtained from a.......badger. Yes this may be shocking to some but alas it is the truth. The truth was out there and I found it. thank you I'll be here all week...don't forget to tip the waitress Raf
Dont let the kind feelings towards a cute dog I worked with for a month fool you. I'd wrestle a baby lamb just for its chops.
I just ate 2 cheese burgers. And henrietta is a friendly alligator. She was dropped as a baby. If you dont hold her tight, she'll get mad and bite you.
Sorry, still not buying. You are cuddling that alligator like a pet, not cutting it up for a new pair of shoes or a snazzy wallet. JayKay, admit it; you're a nice guy who likes animals! BTW. You are dead right about that thread being started out of ignorance. As consumers, we didn't have any meaningful information about how badger pelts are obtained. That's not unreasonable - we just buy brushes to lather our faces. But, all too clearly, neither did many of the companies involved in procuring pelts and manufacturing and selling brushes. All along I've held the view that, for those companies operating on a commercial scale, the 'we don't know/we don't care' attitude is unreasonable. Everything I've learned and read along the way has reinforced that. If those companies were more knowledgeable about the products they sell, the replies would have been quick and clear. Something along the lines of: 'that wasn't a badger it was a raccoon dog. Badgers are caught in the wild - usually killed by being gassed in their setts, then skinned, and the meat and fat are used for food.' Happy to continue this through PMs if you would rather not take up space on the forum. Cheers Jeremy
Just going to point out that you can like animals and still not care about how Badgers (or really any animal) are treated when it comes to brushes (or any other product). They are not mutually exclusive thought processes.
The video showed raccoon dogs, not badgers. I don't know, but they sure looked a lot more docile. It sure looked like standard practice in that particular market. I think it's simply indifference. It's just too much trouble for them to kill them humanely and then make sure they're dead. Not that it IS trouble, in fact I'm guessing it's pretty easy. They just don't think it is worth the effort.
Ok, but it if you had two methods of killing the cute cuddly baby lamb, one slow and tortuous and the other quick and painless, and both were equally difficult, which would you choose? What if the painless method took 3 more minutes? 5? 20? An hour? What if it took 10 minutes to learn the technique? An hr? A day? A week? What I know from pushing my own body to the limits, is that the difference between life and death is much more narrow than we like to believe. I'm sure in your line of work you know this too. You also know it's not hard to kill humanely.
One thing that people seem to be failing to take into account is simply the different ideas and thought processes behind different people/cultures. It seems to be a favourite hobby of particular groups of people to look at people who are from a completely different background and then throw that out the window and assume that one set of morals is better than another. A great example of this practice is people looking back into history and judging past events based on current ideas of what is 'right' and 'wrong' which is completely impossible and impractical.
I guess it would all depend on whether I'm a person who has the financial means to buy the propper gasses or other materials needed to humanely slaughter the badger. Am I supporting my family? my village? with the profits coming from catching badgers. Is spending extra money to humanely kill badgers going to cut into my profit enough for it not to be worth it? Maybe its cheaper to just use a big rock? If the only thing standing between me and my familys well being is a badger, its going to die one way or another.
