Rockwell Owners Adjustable Razors Club (ROARC)

I wasn't aware that anything on the Model T was being sourced from China. They were so adamant about have the 6s be American made, I assumed the Model T was as well.

-Mc

 

My understanding is the 6C (and 2c) as well at Model T are China made. Only USA made I am aware of is the 6S. I could be mistaken.

 

From what I understand MIM factories in USA had no problem tackling the 6S razor due to it not being overly complicated to produce. Gareth said that Model T parts are much more complicated vs the 6S and usually Asian countries are more advanced when it comes to the MIM industry.

To tell you the truth I have no clue if that's true, or just simply manufacturers choose MIM production to be done outside western countries because its cheaper, but if saving money was Gareth main concern then he would have the 6S made outside USA in the first place... Really hard to judge on this one, although from what I hear MIM process is very accurate and it should not matter in which country is being done, results are always satisfying.

Maybe I'm wrong and someone can jump in with his/hers personal negative experience with 3rd world country MIM production process

 

Like all things, you get what you pay for. 3rd world is cheaper but for a reason. It isn't worth as much unless you can find that company that does it right which is going to have the exact same machines as the places here in the USA. The problem is that the MIM process is highly under utilized.


With the Rockwell 6S and the one blade razors MIM is finally getting some well deserved spotlight. The production cost of a razor made with MIM is cheap. I'd like to know the profit margin one blade and Rockwell have. I'll guarantee Rockwell has a realistic profit margin when compared to the one blade which is charging double or triple what they should be charging.

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Actually turns out that MIM is cheaper than machining but not cheap. You can see for example Supply Provision version 2 of their injector will be $20+ more vs their 1st version which was done via the typical mold and then machined the pieces individually to satisfactory fitment. SP MIM razor will be produced in China and still is more expensive vs the molded/machined version 1, but then probably the version 1 was also made in China too. Apparently creating proper single MIM mold + research and testing can cost somewhere between $10.000 - $12.000 per mold, considering the Model T has 4 different pieces in the head department cost will be around $50.000+, naturally this will all get balanced out over time by selling more razors because after the mold is created the profit starts to make more sense because you can produce lots of pieces with just 1 mold and will take some beating till that mold calls it quits.

My only concern was if Gareth decides to split those 50K and charge the 20% of KS people who are interested in the razor, that would be unfair and the razor will end up with a cost of around $300-$400 and probably half of the interested in SS version will back off leaving the razor cost even higher at $600+....

I doubt this will be the case because Gareth will use his math skills and actually figure out how many more razors he can make out of those molds and charge us the extra price hike fairly and accordingly, so I expect maximum price hike of $50 per person, if the price hike goes $100+ I'm out of the KS and I will ask for refund. There is no way I'm paying $200 for an SS MIM mold razor that's super duper butterfly type while I got my 6S for $80, Razorock SS Hawk for $60, Supply Provision 3 plates for $76 and the Razorock Wunderbar for $130....

I understand there are people who pay 2000-3000 for a razor, I'm not one of them.

 

I don't know if it was an update or answer to question in a comment section where I read the Model 6C and T were to be sourced in Asia.
I was on the mailing list because I was an original backer of the 6S. I was interested in the Model T when it launched on kickstarter, until I read internals were zinc. The internals changed however rather quickly in the program.
But I decided early on I am not a collector. I have a 6S, my daily driver, and a birthyear and quarter Slim Adjustable. It is all I need so I opted out of getting updates and such.
To be honest don't feel like going through the work to find where it was talked about as far as sourcing to Asia.
Also, if you notice any of Rockwell's products that are made in the USA or Canada are mentioned and highlighted. There is no point of manufacturing mentioned for the 6C and T (that I can find).
To me it doesn't matter I'm not buying one, I'm only hoping the company succeeds. With proper oversight no reason an Asian made product can not have high quality. It is done every day in every product field.

 

When i said cheap i meant compared to cnc machining. I know a guy with a machine shop. He's looking into getting an MIM setup. My dad talked to him and asked him about doing a safety razor and he laughed. He said he could do simple handles of a single type for me easily but said he wouldn't do the heads because he needs a huge order and i couldn't afford his prices and neither could artisan designers. He mainly goes after big contracts my mom said.

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MIM factories in Asia should be much more experienced vs USA ones considering they work non stop with different types of molds and sizes, here in USA manufacturing.... well do I need to say more? jobs were outsourced for the sake of the greedy corporations that have the whole government dancing on their left thumb, so naturally USA manufacturing is much less experienced vs Asian ones, practice make your skills grow

 

You do realize some people over price themselves? Just got the SS Hawk and its machined + DLC for $60.... If I'm correct the razor is machined in Canada, so no you don't always get what you pay for.

 

This is the e-mail I received a while ago from Rockwell regarding the SS.
Rockwell Razors

5:42 PM (3 hours ago)


to me

Hi Kypros,

Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately at this time we're still not able to confirm we'll be able to proceed with the Model T in Stainless Steel due to still assessing options for manufacturability of the razor. I'll be sure to keep you posted on potential options though, if you've signed up for the list!

If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Best,

Grigori

 

Based on my career experience, in layman terms, they can't find a source to produce the product at the margins needed AND stay within the retail price point that would be accepted in the DE community.

 

Thanks for the update. I know they'll do what they can. If it happens and it's not terribly expensive, I'll get it. If it doesn't happen, that's OK too. I'm sure the Model T will be a success for Rockwell either way.

I'm afraid you're probably right. If I were suddenly a partner with Rockwell Razors, I'd suggest doing a limited edition all brass run. All they would need to do is either do the doors small scale or machine them. Everything else on the razor would be exactly as is for the standard.

-Mc

 

Correct, the 6S is made in the USA while the 6C and Model T are being made in China.

Gareth had samples made up from several USA and China based companies. The China ones were all of better quality in both the casting and chroming from what I recall which is why he went with China on this one.

Rockwells profit margin isn't as high as most people would think. They need 4 different molds to produce the parts and those can cost $10,000-$20,000 or more each and they wear out over time. The making, testing, modifying, retesting, etc of the molds is the greatest cost of injection molding where as the actual cost of the part it makes and materials might only be a buck or two. Then there is the rejected part rate which is basically flushed money.

Their razor stands at $25-$30? each are actually their lowest profit margin item, barely above cost.

Gareth would not put the cost of a Stainless Model T solely on the backers. He would figure out what he would have to sell them for at retail and that is what he would charge since he would add them to the store and sell them retail to recoup costs.

They could also be trying to find a way to keep the tolerances that Gareth wants, which is why they had to switch from brass to zamac in the first place

 

Good info as usual. Thanks Joe.

 

I received my Rockwell 6S this evening. Even though I shaved this morning, I had to try this razor tonight. So I setup the razor with plate #3 and a fresh Gillette Silver Blue blade. The only way to discribe the shave is WOW! Absolutely no irritation. I was able to go ATG for the 1st time on my 3rd pass. No nicks, no cuts and no irritation.
I am one happy shaver!

 

Welcome to the club. Feel free to rid yourself of RAD and all your other razors

 

Yep!

FYI, RAD will forever be different. And here's the REALLY scary thing, you know your favorite razor before you got the 6s? After a few months of using the 6s, using your previous favorite again will feel like slumming it.

Enjoy and welcome to the club!

 

There is also the OneBlade, but nothing beats the 6S for comfort and user satisfaction.
For ex, this morning I did one pass with my straight and then not wanting to risk further, I finished with the OB.
I got satisfaction of accomplishing something with the str8, but not with the OB. Had I used the 6S, I would have had a sense of accomplishment for the whole shave. Next time around, it's the 6S on plate 6 for first pass and 4 for clean up.

 

Hi all!

My apologies, I just realized I was WAY behind in updating the member-list. For some reason I hadn't seen all the posts pages back. So I've tried to back-read it all and I think I've included ya'll now!

I still use my 6S all the time at home. Most of my other razors have been sold off, so I'm down to a few select precious ones.

I've used the Perma-Sharp Super blade for a packs duration now and I'm absolutely blown away by the results! It originally started in my Tech that I use at work with amazing results and wanted to try in my Rockwell at home - it's a stellar combo - much much MUCH better than anything I've tried before. I get closer shaves, easier shaves, more pleasant shaves and it, for good or bad, allows be to be sloppy and still come out feeling great! I don't care the blade is priced higher by a factor 3 compared to my previous favorite (Voskhod) - this is a blade I'll stock up on - at first I'm thinking 50 blades and see if my excitement persists. If, then I'm thinking a 500 pcs stash to keep me saturated and "never" run out. It's that good, at least for me.

All my trouble-spots on my chin and neck have vanished with this blade and I can shave more often than every 24 hours with zero irritated spots. Incredible.

 

Don't see me on the list.