No offense, but that comes off rather patronizing. I was wet shaving for months by the time I got my Astras and still more months when my Merkur arrived Christmas Eve morning and used it right away. If it were only about technique, then why are the VDH blades so almost-universally-disliked as being dull? If it's all about technique and nothing else, then why is zamak or pot metal so reviled compared to brass? What good is a sharp blade if it can't hold an edge for long or it rusts overnight? What good is a blade that takes and holds a dull edge and pulls and tugs right out of the box, even for a seasoned shaver? No, there are real differences in blade and razor craftsmanship and they do count for something. Technique is important, yes, but without good tools it means very little, as in the rusty can analogy used earlier.

I think what some are trying to say is that as one's technique improves, the differences between gear lessens. It takes a few years, not a couple of months.

Yup...

It is patronizing.... Being offended is not an issue. No one has the right to not be offended. Every post you make shows how much you have to learn about this hobby. You are among the group of people that have it all figured out after a few months.
No one is talking about dull blades. We say all the time there are blades that can not give a shave. People who complain about most of that equipment are people like you. They have not developed the higher skill levels. If the equipment is not defective it is all about the same when it comes for use. I get just as good of shaves from VDH blades as Gillete blades. The VDH razor shaves as good as a vintage super speed. This is shaving...there is not that much difference in things once you pick your game up. Feel free to be offended my the musings of a cranky old guy. Your trying to preach to the choir without knowing the tune.

I can comment on my own experience and tell you that it took me close to a year to develop what I think is really good technique and I still continue to learn things all the time. I thought that after a month two I had it down, and never tried anything new. This held me back, but once I listened to others, my shaves improved drastically. One of the biggest things I found was that I had my shaving angle wrong. I was using an inefficient angle, and several blades felt tuggy. Once I adjusted my angle, it seemed that just about every blade cut better, I could easily get over 10 shaves with a blade with no loss of performance, and my shaves were more comfortable. I don't have any experience with VDH blades, but it may be that they do have production issues. Perhaps I will get a tuck to see. But, it might be possible that VDH blades are the first blade people try before they have much experience. Maybe their opinion is skewed because of this.

Your statement about pot metal is not 100% correct, though. EJ and Merkur razors are favored by plenty of people, and these are pot metal heads. The last version of the Gillette Tech was pot metal. Pot metal razors shave just fine, but the metal corrodes if the plating is chipped, which is why some people have a problem with them.

Ultimately, shaving is a personal thing, so everyone should do what works for them. I would just say that, based on my own experience, keeping an open mind about the importance of technique over the tools can be of benefit to a newer traditional wet shaver. Some of the guys on this forum do really know quite a bit and are very willing to help. The 30 Day thread I mentioned previously is a perfect example.

I am not trying to upset anyone, so don't take offense. I am just presenting my point of view.

Veddy well put!

Well stated.

and it's a good one. Very well said.
While most would like to say thirty days is enough to perfect a skill, I'll admit that things didn't come that quickly for me, and I'm quite sure that i get better and better, even after a few years and shaving types (de,de and straight). Thirty days is just the first step to a life long journey.
Sorry about the run on sentence.

@wchnu - 30 years of the same razor, with every cheap blade I could get, stretched as far as I could manage. With care, I can stretch crappy blades to two weeks. I _still_ can tell the difference between an Astra SP, a Voskhod, a Dorco, a Derby, and so forth. Now, that's ONLY DE's. When I pick up one of the GEMs and put the blade in it, you can be sure I'll be spending time watching a few of your (and others) videos before putting it to my face. _zero_ skill. I vaguely remember the early days of using it and learning. 30 day focus? Didn't have a choice

What I'm saying is that if you want to be patronizing, think about it first, please? We're not talking about a fantasy world, we are discussing items which are manufactured in different places to different standards, with equipment of varying tolerances. We're also talking about people who have different types of hair and different types of skin. Dorco is NOT Derby, which is NOT Nacet, which is NOT Shark. If they were all close enough to be like the 'It's all in the technique!!!' people say, then there's only be _one brand_ per country, and one blade type per brand. Nobody would bother selling another, let alone ship them across international borders.

Mind you, I think that the technique people are correct enough that it's the main reason why we now only HAVE four or five manufacturers, world wide. They still found it profitable enough to have uncoated, coated stainless, chrome plated, and carbon blades for sale.

Do I come across as arrogant? Probably. It's mostly because unlike a lot of people on the various shaving forums, I started with the DE at age 14, and stayed with it after trying the other options off and over the years. It wasn't a decision made a short time ago to try to make the shaves more fun, or avoid razor bumps, or explore the new options of fad hand-machined razors, or anything like that. It was a decision based on the fact that even with the REALLY crappy blades available to me, I still got better shaves for less money than using cartridges, and the razor tolerated anything I used for shaving cream/soap. (Wanna learn technique? Use Dial or Safeguard instead of ARKO... the burn!) I will freely admit that I am an absolute newbie for anything _other_ than DE's. No skills, little knowledge, and no time to really learn good skills. Straight razors are a bit scary. Shavettes just look like an accident waiting to happen - but I'll eventually give them a shot. I may decide that they're not for me (straights, SE, or shavettes), but I'll try them for a while first.

I get what you’re saying and I’m actually in agreement but a little rough.

Patronizing aside he’s more than likely right on this one. The reason I say that is because of the nicks and cuts you mentioned earlier. In my experience a dull blade or way too mild razor pulls and rugs but it won’t cause cuts and nicks that’s too much pressure on the face. Any time someone says they’re getting cuts or lots of razor burn it’s more than likely a technique issue.

There’s definitely a difference in various blades quality and sharpness etc. I could definitely tell the difference in a Feather and a Shark Chrome but I can make both work. What most people mean when they say technique trumps tools is exactly that. Technique TRUMPS the tool. Maybe the tool isn’t great but you can still make it work with proper technique. Too mild don’t press in and cause razor burn just make an extra pass or two. Too sharp watch the angle and pay attention to keeping a light touch. Soap dries out a lot keep adding water. I’m also not talking about defects or faulty products here. I don’t like mild razors or dull blades I could still get a good shave without irritation from a Derby in a Tech but I wouldn’t necessarily enjoy the experience.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get a nick every now and then, but it's usually due to inattention and the blade moving _sideways_. oops. (and I have some wart/moles that get hit) Mostly, what I'll end up with from blades is what is considered 'razor burn'. Sometimes from inattention, but mostly because a blade has gone out. (or was never 'in').

I think what happens in some cases is that the edge of the blade itself shatters. So instead of a (relatively) smooth edge being drawn down the skin, you have a series of jagged teeth dragging along the skin. There's still enough edge to cut the hair, yes, but even with the best angle, you'll end up with some edges drawing through the top epidermal layer. If that is happening (I should probably put a microscope in the bathroom), it could be because the blade was over hardened, the hair was REALLY tough (or dirty!), or gremlins crept in in the night and put a metal fatigue curse on the storage box.

I agree, however, that actual injuries are due to technique being lost. (Turning your head to listen to your wife, who is trying to hold a discussion with you from three rooms away like you're sitting in front of her, then getting upset that you haven't answered her.) I'm not considering skin irritation an injury, as such.

If you don't enjoy the experience with the blade, then it's obviously doing some sort of damage, or is not functional for your needs. I wouldn't call it a good shave without irritation. How about an acceptable level of hirsuteness reduction. I do _know_ that the skin type makes a difference with the blade. I have blades that my face hates, but my armpits have zero problems with them. Different hair type, different skin type. So I keep both blades around, and use them in different razors, so that I don't get confused. That's something I've learned since hitting the forums and finding out about all the various blades I could get. Might be minor to some, but I consider it a major success in getting the right tool for the job.

Again with the patronizing. I'm not some wet-behind-the-ears know-nothing. Do you not think people are capable or inclined to pay attention when they get new razors? I noted right away when I opened my Merkur 34c that the head was much different from my Van Der Weishi. On the latter, as in the Super Speeds, the blade is held in the razor with little or no curvature and a very small blade gap. In my '74 Super Speed, that gap was pretty much nonexistent. The head of the Merkur, however, provided a much wider blade gap and bent the blade to conform to the curvature of the head, thus necessitating that I alter my angle. Once I took all that into account and figured out how much pressure was needed, my shaves gave neither nicks or irritation. Now, if we were to blindly accept the technique-only argument, then the razor doesn't matter and they should all shave exactly the same with the same amount of pressure. But such is demonstrably false. Anyone with a working set of eyes, the ability to judge weight differences by holding different razors, and oh yeah, knowledge of basic metallurgy (which I happen to have through my studies of classical and medieval weaponry), and so on, can tell that there are differences in manufacture that do affect how sharp or dull a blade is or how well or poorly a razor is made.

The fact is, there are differences in manufacture, not all blades are made of the same grade of steel or even the same alloy, and different metals will take and hold an edge differently according to their metallurgic makeup and the skill of the manufacturer. That's why, yes, regardless of what you think, a VDH razor is almost universally disliked because it's a poorly made, dull blade that nicks and irritates far more often than not—and this can be objectively demonstrated by examining the blade edge through a jeweler's lens or a microscope with enough magnification.

So please stop talking down to me like I'm some dummy who can't make use of his faculties. It's needlessly condescending and doesn't make your case for you, only undermines it.

My original comment stands. I will even make it Blue Bell.

The thing is, the very real differences in blade manufacture and razor construction demonstrate that technique is only part of the equation. I've read books on metallurgy in my studies of swords and I learned that some alloys will take and hold an edge better than others, and how sharp an edge is also determined by the manufacturing.

Don't believe me? then read the reply sent to me from DOVO-Merkur when I inquired about their mustache razor blades:

So this is not a matter of technique causing pull and tug, but of the nature of the blade itself that is dulled during manufacturing. No amount of technique will make shaving with the blades any better because the manufacture itself renders them dull, and there's no way yet to overcome this, although I hope Merkur will find a way.

I'm not upset, just trying to make the point that technique alone does not guarantee a great shave. Very real differences in blade and razor manufacture (alloy, design, quality control) do contribute to how good a shave people get, and really, because of the differences from person to person (skin sensitivity and whisker type), I just think it's leaving out real factors to put it all up to technique. I'm not saying technique isn't relevant, because it is. What I am saying is that one should not discount those other factors simply because one has mastered a learning curve.

So I have over 30 (I have honestly lost count) DE razors and about a dozen SE razors, some of which you state don't shave well. I can get an irritation free BBS shave with them anytime I want or need to. I know that adjustments have to be made for each one, but I can do it quickly and on the fly. I can do it with a new to me razor on the first try. This is technique, it isn't the tool. I can also use blades I have heard most people rail against and get the same BBS results. I cannot remember a blade, once I got my technique down, that has failed me.

The statement from Dovo indicates that they are acknowledging the fact that they damage the edge during the handling and packaging phase. Of course this isn't going to work very well. I would agree, and I would not buy such a product. I am not arguing that defective products can be made to work.

The point that I am trying to make is don't rush to judgment on the tools just yet. You may find that in a few years your opinion changes. I only say this because, I did exactly what I am saying not to do. Because of this, I got rid of several razors I either wish I hadn't, or I ended up getting again. I also PIFed away several tucks of blades because I thought they didn't work for me. Upon revisiting those blades, they work just fine.

Your original comment is meaningless.

I'm not denying your personal experience. If you can get a decent shave with a demonstrably dull blade, more power to you. But it'll still be a dull blade no matter how you hone your technique and unless you take the time to sharpen it properly, it won't matter if your technique is down pat it'll still be dull and not give you as good a shave as a blade that is sharp. That is simple physical reality. And again, skin sensitivity and whisker type do come into play regardless of what anyone says. A course beard will dull a blade faster than a naturally softer beard will, whisker-softening practices aside. So your favorite blade brand won't necessarily be preferred by someone else due to those other factors, which is why I find it's helpful to get a sampler pack that contains at least two of each brand so users can find out which one works best for them. Shaving isn't rocket science. It needn't take years to perfect one's technique, especially if one is a fast learner. Does it help, is it important? Sure. I'd be a liar to suggest otherwise. I just think that technique is only part of the story and that one shouldn't discount the value of sampler packs just because one has learned how to adapt to the various differences in blade and razor manufacture.

I think the original question has been lost slightly within these replies... We aren't talking about being able to use a dull blade. Experts might, newbies probably can't. I believe the OP was asking as a newbie, are you better off trying many blades or focusing on technique using one?

As has been established above, there are almost "grades" of newbie. At roughly 6 months in, I'm at a point where I have 5
DE razors and I can get a smooth shave with all of them, but still occasionally make mistakes. If I take my time, 60%+ of my shaves are BBS with the rest pretty close, but there's areas of my face that I find tricky or have to pay more attention to. Would it now benefit me to stick with one blade for a while, in one razor? Yes. (I don't want to, but that's a different argument. I am about to buy my first large order of a single blade and use them exclusively for a while, but I'll still swap between razors every week)

Are some blades better straight out the factory than others? Yes.

So as a newbie no matter what your first tuck of blades are, you're probably better off doing a 30 day. Advice I got from @Bama Samurai and I tried it. Got me up to speed with my tech faster than I would have otherwise, as a previous user of cartridge razors.

But once you've tried that and think you're getting somewhere, if your first pack of blades was merkur and the general consensus is they aren't the best, then switch. But what to try next?? That's where samplers come in. Each pack usually contains enough blades to do 30 days with each anyway!!

So right now I have blades in three razors; a Gillette Thin blade that is about a half century or more old in a Gillette 1946-50 Tech, a Gillette Valet blade in a pre-Gillette Valet Autostrop and an Astra in a Mergress. Yup, the old Valet blade is not as sharp as the others and yes, I will only get one or two comfortable shaves from the Gillette Thin blade that was made in 1957 but the resulting shave in all three cases is the same, a close comfortable two pass near perfect shave with minimal touchup after an alum rub.

Now it is also true that some razors and blades can be more forgiving for a new user to learn on but that does not alter the fact that experience and technique are factors. Yet even there after well over 700 months of Safety Razor experience I still haven't got it all figured out.

There is a continuing stream of threads on every shaving board asserting that brand/model blade, razor, soap, cream, balm, aftershave ... is better than the others but what I have learned over the years is that the only valid criteria is what that individual happens to like at the time the post is made.

Back in October last year I did a personal comparison of a whole herd of open comb razors and far too often the deciding factor between two razors was which one was prettier. Of particular interest to me was that three different examples of Gillette Old Style razors were included, two WWI years models and one post WWI model. Using the same blades and prep for all three I found the two WWI years razors to be less comfortable than the later 1920s razor but that actually makes sense since the factory at that time was staffed with newer employees (the draft took a significant part of every company's staff, over 2.8 million men) and the "J" series razors may well have been treated far rougher than the average razor in the average bathroom of the period.

But that is important because it is the exception rather than the rule. What I have found in general is that a Weishi 9306 or Baili Tech clone shave as well as the originals and that the differences between blades (particularly DE blades) is almost zilch.

So, for the new shaver and the question of "Sampler Packs versus Honing One's Technique" the answer is "Go for it, enjoy the sampler packs while you hone your technique."