Honing School - Honemeisters & Newbies Unite!

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by BaylorGator, Jul 14, 2018.

?

I am a:

  1. Honemeister

  2. Not a honemeister, but I know my way around the stones

  3. Have enough skill to keep a previously honed edge sharp

  4. Total Honing Newb

  5. I don't hone, I'm just following for fun

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Paul76

    Paul76 Well-Known Member

    On the medium hollow ground razor I would start at a higher grit level around 800 to help keep as much of the etch on the blade, since that part is not as deep as the tang stamp
     
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  2. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    After elbow grease...
    702DC066-0622-4D1F-B686-4A0051849AF7.jpeg
    Ready for the hones. Any tips for the one with the smiling edge?
     
  3. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    Thanks!
    I have jewelers compound, which is fine for polishing, but I needed to get rid of some pretty significant pitting, so sandpaper was the only way to get there.
     
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  4. Arnout

    Arnout Well-Known Member

    A narrow hone makes honing a smiling blade feel natural, on a big hone you need to add some tilt in the stroke.
    A sweeping/ scything stroke helps.
    Holding the razor in one hand and the hone in the other hand also helps
     
  5. Paul76

    Paul76 Well-Known Member

    Very nice work, turned out beautifully. I’ve never been able to get a hold of a medium size hollow ground. They always elude me. Tape the spine and follow what @Arnout just posted. Take your time and enjoy it. Remember to put it up for later if it gets frustrating.
     
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  6. Arnout

    Arnout Well-Known Member

    Oh, i hardly ever use tape.
    A good blade is designed to be honed on the spine, tape gives a draw on the razor that makes it difficult to feel what i am doing, and small plastic gets honed and they ruin the slurry.

    If it is an old wedge or an extreme big, narrow blade or just poor steel i will rather hone freehand than with tape.
     
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  7. Paul76

    Paul76 Well-Known Member

    I understand what you mean on the feel @Arnout . I prefer tape due to only having about a year and a half of experience and am still learning a lot on the feel of the razor on the stone with and also without tape. The razor that I had started to learn with suffered a lot of unneeded spine wear from over pressure and over honing on the different levels of stones. The tape helped me not destroy the geometry of the razor while I was trying to learn.
     
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  8. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    I second what @Arnout said. Adding a rocking motion, from heal to toe will work well too, if you dont have narrow stones. I always do the rocking motion on my Smiling Razors.
    Whatever gets the job done. Remember, there are many ways to get to the same, end result. So no one answer is totally correct.
     
  9. CastleShave

    CastleShave Well-Known Member

    Couldn’t agree more


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. CastleShave

    CastleShave Well-Known Member

    Don’t bother, using a 120 grit sand paper will get all of it out with out having to play with chemicals. If you can bring it all the way up to 4k I wouldn’t doubt that it will look like the top razor


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. CastleShave

    CastleShave Well-Known Member

    I have one but with different etching and new scales. Older frame style as well I would give it 1890-1910 if it interests you just shoot me a pm.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  12. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    Spent some time with the hollow ground on the stones today. Thought it would be easier, but there is a bow in the blade that requires the rocking motion you guys mentioned. There was some pitting on the blade that I worked on, but was too impatient and eventually had to drop back down to the 4K to get. As I went up the progression, most of the edge looks really good, but there are a few spots where my blade gymnastics haven’t reached. I think I’ll drop down to the 4K again and take a bit more time trying to get the bevel a bit more even. Learning patience is key here, and figuring out that older razors may require more laps than expected.
     
  13. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    I use a combination of several strokes. But, the x-stroke is a mainstay, and a rocking x-stroke(at least that's what i call it), is used a lot. I use the "Rocking X-Stroke" a lot, because many of my blades have smiles, or have previous issues, that have to be overcome.
     
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  14. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    If you use the EXACT same gymnastics as you use on a Narrow hone on a wide hone the results will be the same.

    Some people feel more comfortable using a narrow hone and they are easier to hold in one hand and hone in the other, but the idea that the "Hone Width" changes anything is a myth that just continues.


    Test it yourself, draw a simple line down your 3" hone and only hone to one side of it that line, the gymnastics you use to do that will replicate the moves you are doing on a thinner hone.

    ie: Learn to use what you have in your hand, you don't need to buy new hones..
    Or read my sig line again :)

    Something I have been pushing for about the last 5 years at the meets is the dropping of the names of strokes, I noticed people trying to do the "Stroke" rather than following the edge as needed.
    I was guilty of inventing names for strokes in the old days too, that I feel was a huge mistake on our parts, use the needed Gymnastics required, combined with Pressure and Torque to move the edge evenly and equally across the honing surface regardless of size :p Use the ripple of water, slurry or oil to guide you, really it is that simple, practice until it gets easier and you are golden..


    ps: Tape

    In over 30,ooo razors that have crossed my Bench and Hones since 2007 professionally I have never seen one ruined by the use of a few pennies worth of tape,,, I have fixed tons that the person honing should have used tape :(
    At least start with it, once you are NOT wearing the tape out and leaving it on the hone, you might be ready to hone without it.
    It is much less damaging and depressing to see the effects of your bad honing left on tape, than on steel :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  15. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    Learnings and Questions:
    Spent about an hour on the hones and I’m slowly learning how to get all parts of the blade against the stone. I’m not great at it, but I’m a lot better than when I started. This blade is definitely a bit tricky as using straight strokes and X strokes is not naturally creating a bevel with even width. In order to try and solve this, I learned using the edge of the stone can be helpful to reach all parts of the edge. I also learned to stop going and checking it in the microscope, as the bevel is width is actually much easier to see by just looking at the reflection of the light off of the bevel with no magnification. I’m getting much better at producing a more even width of the bevel, but I’m still far from perfect on this blade. Below is a picture of the widest section of the bevel and the narrowest section of the bevel under the microscope.
    79A2052E-2A53-42F7-9CD1-926A5CD277FA.jpeg
    B7F4E971-DAD7-4182-9922-3271028B5DCF.jpeg
    First of all, is this OK? It’s taken a lot of time to get to this point and I didn’t know how perfect the width of the bevel needed to be across the blade and how critical this is to sharpness. It looks reasonably even to the naked eye, but the microscope really points out there are differences in width here. Most of the blade looks like the top picture, but the areas that were difficult to get against the hone are a bit thinner like the bottom pic.

    Secondly, using the edge of the stone to reach all of the blade to set the bevel seems a bit crude but it also seems to have worked reasonably effectively. Is this a technique that others use or am I going down the wrong path here?

    I also have learned enough on this thread to determine that I need to learn how to hone uneven blades like this one. Despite the fact that “perfect blade geometry” would make this blade much easier to hone, I have zero interest in grinding down a spine of a razor that I took significant time and effort to restore its original beauty. I am also convinced that the minuscule affect of the tiny warp in the blade has absolutely zero bearing on how effectively it shaves. It just makes it more difficult to hone if you are not highly skilled (which I am not right now). Despite the learning curve, I’m really starting to appreciate these razors as the historic works of art that they are. Thanks you for those of you who pointed me in this direction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  16. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers


    I take it, the top pic is the before honing, and the bottom is the after honing???
    The top shows a lot of corrosion on the edge, which is typical, after 60-100 years of storage.
    The bottom shows a jagged bevel. This might be because of the initial corrosion, too low of a grit on the bevel stone, or too much pressure while honing. Try killing the edge, and use a lighter touch, towards the latter part of setting the bevel. It should look smooth and not jagged, even under a 60x loupe.
     
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  17. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    These are different parts of the same blade after the 4K stone. The top picture is the parts of the blade I could get to well. The bottom is the parts of the blade that were difficult to get to and required using the edge of the stone in a bit. They are both off the 4K, and I have not been smoothed out moving up the progressions at all. Getting to those thin sections has been a bugger.
     
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  18. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    Sorry, i wasnt looking the photos with a good device. I see now the top photo's edge.
    But, i stand by the rest. It still shouldn't look jagged. Lightly draw the edge of the blade across the outer edge of your stone, killing the edge, and taking out the chippyness. Then, rehone the bevel, but use a lighter touch, and some new tape.
     
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  19. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Uneven bevels have zero effect on Shaving ability...

    Just remember anything you can get to on the side of the hone you can get to on a 3-inch hone also by adjusting your Honing Gymnastics

    On these older wedgey blades an extreme heel forward attitude often helps to get to the hard spots, keep in mind using a narrow honing surface is NOT bad, but using it the way you are requires diligence and perhaps some time blending of the corrected spots with the rest of the bevel so you don't create a "Bumpy bevel"


    Am going to assume you have already tried coloring the Bevel also is there a pic we can get an idea of how big that bevel is ??
     
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  20. BaylorGator

    BaylorGator MISTER Fancypants

    Thanks for the response, guys. I'll take a pic of the bevel without magnification. Per the above, I'll then kill the edge and try again with the 4K and use the marker trick to determine what movements are most effective at reaching the tricky parts of the bevel. (I think the 1K is a bit aggressive for my remedial skillset and I don't mind taking the extra time on the 4K to make sure I don't strip off too much metal at once.) I'll also will avoid using the edge of the hone to reach the tricky part of the blade (which I think is the main reason that area is rough, since the rest of the blade is smooth from the 4K). If I don't get it on the next try, I'll put it away and work on my skills on some easier blades and then eventually try again. At some point I may just break down send it to Glen and have it done right, but there's some level of pride about saying I brought this old rusty, crusty razor back from the dead and refinished and honed it myself, and I really want to be successful here. Thanks for the help and suggestions. If you have any others, keep 'em coming. I'm listening.
     
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