Convex Hones

I think that you are wrong there, the hone that did this is soft. It is however, very, very, fine.

 

I don't think we disagree too much. You need a good stone and a good hand honing the razor. I have a lv 4.5 jnat that is one of the finest jnats I have. I just need to be a little more careful with the pressure then on my harder stones. It will also depend on the flexibility of the razor. I prefer harder stones for heavier grinds and softer stones for more flexible grinds.
I think the thread is drifting a little

 

Eh, it’s the internet, it’s OK. Ryan will reel us back in if we get too deep into the best Norwegian beers, lol.

 

Agree. I think that you are ‘selling yourself short’, or giving more credit to the stone than your honing skills. IOW:



This is true of J-Con too, he could hone a razor very well before he ever started using bumpy hones.

Ryan, feel free to delete this if it’s not socially correct for the times.

 

So, John and Ryan, why not use flat hones up until the finisher, then use a finisher that’s slightly concave? Wouldn’t this create the same effect (more or less) as to hitting the apex, as using a convex hone then a flat finisher? ‘This is your mission John, should you decide to accept it’ (words from the original Mission Impossible). I wouldn’t take it lol.

I ask this for a reason, I use my finishers a lot between lapping, and that may have contributed to the apex appearance in post #56. I keep my coarser synthetic stones pretty flat, because I want a flat bevel going into the finish. If the finisher is a little concave, that’s OK because it will help hitting the apex, kind of like adding an extra layer of tape in the dilucot (unicot?) coticule methods.

 

Same principle as adding an extra layer of tape, for the final finisher. You end up with a Micro-bevel. If you look at it under magnification, you can see a bevel, then the smaller bevel halfway or so, down the main bevel, the rest of the way to the edge. I do that at times, especially when an edge gets chippy, for whatever reason on that blade.

 

Lapping on loose grit convexes a hone, lapping with a (flat) diamond plate or sandpaper on a piece of flat glass/granite does not. Iwasaki describes this in his barber’s chapter.

Not that often. I don’t have a Starrett because I don’t think that it’s that important since a hone wears every time that you use it. What I usually do is sight down the stone surface of my finishers so that a reflection of a light bulb is on the surface, then move the reflection across the surface. If it distorts, it needs lapping. This does not guarantee a flat surface, it’s a ‘guardrail’ method.

And I have never understood that having an anally flat or shaped finisher is of any help when honing hand ground razors whose edges are anything but flat and straight. You hone those with practice, wax on wax off. You rely on observation and tests to move up the grit scale. Just because you buy a Steinway doesn’t mean that you can play it. I rely on a loupe, HHT, and edge tests, toe, center, heel, to tell me when it is time to move up the grit ladder. I have a straight edge from Sharpening Supplies and am not convinced that it’s truly straight. It says that the back of multiple Shapton Glass Stone are concave in the center, and Atoma lapped stones are concave in the center.. The side of an Atoma plate is said to be very straight. Haven’t tried it yet because lol, I really don’t care. I’m not being flippant, but many of my razors are not straight, or flat, so why should I care if my hone isn’t perfectly straight and flat?

I use a Shapton DGLP for the heavy lift on synths when needed, and a very, very mellow 600 Atoma plate to surface finishers. Then maybe a slurry or two and ready to go.

 

Probably concave stones were used. If you look at a lot of the old Coticules, many are Concave.
But, a razor that is properly honed, by a person who knows how to hone, on flat stone, the spine will wear with the edge of the blade, at the same rate.
A properly honed razor, when properly stropped, can deliver hundreds of shaves, before needing to be touched up on a stone, not a bevel reset. I've read about this in some very old Japanese Barbers Manuals, on how to hone. They were translated to English.

 

To be honest, I flatten my Welsh Slate.Stones, maybe every 50 razors, just a little, with some wet/dry, just to bring them back to close enough flat. The bevel setters, up to around 4k, perhaps every 4-6 blades. They wear faster.

 

KISS

I just do about 5 figure 8’s before every razor on every hone or stone with a Diamond plate
Gives me slurry on most to use if I want

 

Time to stop speculating, and theorizing, and do some real honing. Then, and only then, can you gain some "Street Cred." on all these topics.

.

 

Edge retention is much more dependent on how you are able to remove damage from your coarse stones. The type of abrasive, and pressure you have used is important. If a bevel is set using a diamond plate (just an example), even if you are able to visibly remove those striations, the steel is strain hardened deeper in the steel. If the steel is hard and brittle it is more likely to start chipping during finishing, or fall apart after a few shaves.
I don’t think many people quite understand how thin and fragile these edges are at the different stages during honing.
A well done 12k edge is quite close to what a typical Solingen produced steel can handle. After this, if you move to a finer stone, the window of opportunity is really small. If the pressure is not managed properly it is quite easy to take two steps back.
I don't count laps in general when I hone. However, after 8k I really need to have a good idea about the number of laps I use.
After say 10 shaves the 30k edge starts to feel more like a 12k edge. So even if you are able to create the perfect 30k edge it will start to degrade from stropping and use.
A concave bevel and a thinner bevel don't change this much. Flexibility distribute force, and should not adversely affect the durability of the edge.
Scraping off whiskers with an open shaving angle and dry lather kills edges.

 

@JPO

yep keep preaching

been saying it for years now few want to listen “Git r Done” is the new honing mantra

Just posted less than 15 minutes ago by a well respected honer

“Use pressure on ALL your stones! You can finish on them lightly for the last half dozen or so.”

You have quite a few that recommend 400 grit Hones or 600 grit Diamond plate for the bevel set

 

I think the fat lady is starting to sing. I will now just enjoy my honing and shaves.