Hello, I am new to straight razor sharpening, and to this forum. I have Shapton Pro finishing stones, the 5000 and 12000. I find that my SP 12000 is not much finer than my King 6000. I am not getting a comfortable shave yet. I am wondering if I should get the Shapton Pro 8000 to fill in between the 5000 and the 12000, but I do have the King 6000. Is it a good idea to go to a Shapton glass 16000? or perhaps the Naniwa Super Stone 12000? Any suggestions? Perhaps I should concentrate on what I have, with no more stones, and improve on my stropping with Paste or compound? I have asked this to others but I have not received enough information to know. I have been told to go to Jnat Stones but I am not up to that transition right now. I have been using synthetic stones for a long time now for knives. thanks for any further information to help with a better honing and more comfortable shave.
You should start with lower grit stones, around 1k, 3k, 5k, and work your way up to the finishing stones. If you want to do it correctly, there are no shortcuts. This advise is for synthetic stones. Natural stones are a whole other thing.
Welcome! Have you checked out all the links available in the sticky thread at the beginning of this forum?
thanks, I looked a little and I tried to search a little. I will continue when I have the time. I have lower grit stones also. I am able to get a decent edge now after learning. I know I need a new strop. I was just wondering if a shapton glass 16000 would be a good stone after the shapton pro 12000. Being that the Shapton Pro 12000 is not much finer than the King 6000, I was wondering if a Naniwa super stone 12.000 is true to the grit rating or even finer. If I had extra money I would go for the good stuff to try to get a comfortable edge. Anyway, maybe someone has one of these stones and could let me know. Thanks and I will keep in touch when I finally get a good shave with a straight.
You really shouldn't need anything higher than 12k for a razor's edge. That doesn't stop people from pushing for that little bit 'extra.' Yes, you do need something between the 5k and 12k. 3k-4k is about the biggest jump you want between stones, and a 12k is going to struggle to remove scratches left from 5-6k stones, to the point that you are probably trying to shave off a 5k edge, despite taking the blade to the 12k stone. As for stone recommendations, can't help there, as I'm a natural stones guy, not synthetics.
I have not used high magnification only a jeweler's loupe maybe 30 X magnification. If you are familiar with the Shapton pro-1000 many agree that it is like a 700 grit. I am pretty sure from my findings that the Shapton Pro 12000 is more like an 8000 grit stone. Makes me wonder what a Shapton Pro 8000 is like. I am finding out that synthetic stone advice is all over the place, anyway. If someone needed advice on Shapton coarse stones I would be able to give a lot of positive informative feedback, because I use all of them a lot. I am just starting to use the higher grit stones for the straight razors. Now that I am beginning to sharpen straight razors, it is all new to me. I never had to shave with the hundreds of knives that I have sharpened.
You will find that razors respond WAY differently to the stones than a knife does. Also, your previous experience sharpening knives counts for nothing with razors. You will need to unlearn everything you know about how much pressure to use, and the feedback from the stone will be completely different with a razor vs. a knife. I'm not saying that's the root of your problems, but it's something to consider.
You probably don't, because I didn't do a good job of explaining it. You'll figure it out. In light of what we now know, certain things make sense. Grits are relative to the line they are in. A shapton pro 8k, 12k, and 16k will have grits that follow that progression. Another synthetic manufacturer's 12k won't be the same as a shapton pro's 12k. It will be in the same ballpark though. As for the 12k not being much finer than the King 6k, you are absolutely correct... For knives. Anything above 6k is wasted on a knife. It might make it sharper, but at a certain point, the edge becomes too smooth, and isn't toothy enough to provide good cutting action on food. With a razor, it's the opposite, you want that smooth edge, and the edge is so very fragile. A slight lift of the spine during a stroke, too heavy a hand on the blade, and you're back to doing the bevel set (or at least going back a stone or two) on your razor, with the whole progression of stones ahead, again, with nothing to show for it but wasted time, steel, and stone. In the end, it all just boils down to using one rock to remove scratches left by the last rock. Some guy even took a razor from bevel set to shaving sharp, using only a strop, and a LOT of time, just to prove that it actually could be done. The more stones you have, the faster you can go from stone to stone, but it's also more stones to maintain and keep flat. What stones you use, and where you use them are up to you. On a razor, a 4k jump is pretty big, and that's about the biggest jump in hone grit honers will accept. At a certain point, it's a time issue. The exception is Arkansas stones. There are people out there who will cheerfully spend hours upon hours with a razor on those. It's very much a 'zen' thing with those people. They say it's the edge they get. If you want the cheapest, idiot-proof edge that will split laser beams, buy a marble tile from your local big box hardware store and use a 3M film selection to hone on. Those go on up into the 100k equivalent range. @Axeman556 has been learning on those, mostly because he already had them.
----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- everything makes sense to me. You did a good job putting it all together. Thanks
One thing you have right is the difference between Sharp and Smooth I said this years ago and it is still true,, "Sharp is easy, anyone can get it Sharp, getting it Sharp and Smooth on the face takes a little talent" Synthetic Hones are Graded but they can still be quite different between each series Grit Material - What is each piece of grit actually made of effects how they cut. Grit Size - How they actually size the grit makes a difference and how tight their tolerance is Grit Density - How many pieces of grit per Square Inch, this can REALLY effect Scratch Patterns Binder - How this presents the grit and composition can really change the way the steel is exposed to the grit To be honest the older Shapton Pro series never had a great reputation in the SR world they were always considered to leave a rather "Harsh" feel on the face Yes the Naniwa SS series might be the closest thing to a set designed for SRs, they are awesome polishers, BUT, huge but here, your idea that a mirror "Look" equals a comfortable face feel is challenged by almost every Natural stone and by the simple use of slurry when finishing.. We all love a Mirror bevel, but they by no means define a great shave Hone On !!!
Do you go by @papi on B&B? I saw a very similar thread there. I alluded to not lifting the spine of the razor off the stone earlier, but just to make it clear, a razor is honed with the spine touching the stone. Many people use a strip of electrical tape on the spine to minimize spine wear, as the spine is often much softer than the edge, and force applied downward, rather than forward, towards the edge, can cause excessive spine wear, which will negatively affect the edge angle.
---------------------------- --------------------------------- That is exactly what I was searching to hear. Now that I have a set of Shaptons, I was hoping that someone would suggest a well-known synthetic stone to finish off from the Shapton Pro 12000. I have been reading a lot of information and videos. One for instance is, I considered getting a Shapton glass 16000 and one experienced sharpener took magnified pictures of what that stone does to a straight razor, and according to findings, it's not good. I read a post that one guy can get a very smooth comfortable shave using only a strop and compounds! I don't mean to throw you guys a curve ball and make it seem confusing, I guess next time I have to take my time and post a thread more carefully and explanatory. So what I have found out from everyone mostly is to get a natural stone. That seems like a problem, for one the price and for two I would have to trust a seller completely to ask questions and to know exactly what I need. A happy medium with the information I have received in general and my course of action. I have asked a guy who makes quality strops to help me out. I will use my Shapton Pro 12000 and strop away with whatever he suggests and sells me. If I have to, I will strop for a half hour after I use my Shapton Pro 12000. If I can get a comfortable shave it will be an accomplishment and a better understanding. The guys on Badger and Blade helped me tremendously a lot to get me through the first stage of learning how to sharpen. I know the basics now and I know what not to do and I know what to do. It is just a matter of practicing on eBay razors that do not cost too much and blades that need major reconstruction to get a shavable edge. My synthetic stones will not go to waste. Thanks for the support and the experienced involved, it is much appreciated.
----- Hello PLANof Man, Papi Santino here, you must be a cop! LOL. I was involved in safety razors since I was a little boy. I started shaving on a Gem and to this day the Gem is my favorite. I strop my Gem blades and they shave for a long time. I started collecting quality safety razors years before the internet was invented. That makes me old I guess. If you think I am a problem with these whetstones, you should have seen the confusion I made with shaving soap! I happen to use a wet slurry of soap and water. I never had any use for fluffy snow-white shave soap. lol
Not a cop, just an avid reader with too much time on his hands, and the mention of a 5k stone and a 12k stone rather clinched the guess. I try to keep an eye on about 8 or 9 shaving forums at any given time. As for collecting, I'm sure it's a source of satisfaction to you that you were able to build up a collection "on the down low" as it were, before wet shaving became popular. My great uncle also collected razors, though unfortunately he passed away when I was very young, and no one knows what became of his collection. As for shaving soap, a thinner, slicker lather than is typical, is what straight razor users tend to shoot for anyways. Slickness, not cushion, is vital. I won't say that you got better advice in that thread than this one, but you received far more specific answers for sure.
----------------- Thanks for the story and all that. I think people are people no matter what forum. I need to be more explicit in what I am trying to say. If I don't try to sell some of my razors, I will end up leaving a heck of a collection with someone to go through. It's all good and appreciated, I appreciate all input from everyone. I know how to be the new guy. it seems like I have been the new guy all my life. It is interesting about the slick vs cushion and what I said! Ironic maybe it was the years with the Gem. thanks
Short story, get the bevels to meet in a single straight line, no matter what grit, which grit that is needed depends on what condition that the edge is in; could be from a diamond plate to a 1k, which is the standard bevel setting grit. But 600-1200 will do. If the edge is in good shape, 4k-5k will do,
You are talking about my friend Matt, we have had a few discussions about his experience with the Shapton 16K GS.. It is NOT across the board, we don't know for sure what happened with some of their 16k hones, but quite a few of us the own them and use them, have NOT had the same experience as Matt found with his .. One thing to consider is that the GS series and the Pro series are two different animals, I would never suggest the GS series unless it is to be used in a Ladder progression with other GS hones JMHO... I find little use for mine except for mostly Vintage NY made SR's, that fine grained steel they built with can handle the 16k/30k edges and still be comfortable.. So I agree that it would NOT be a good choice in your case, it is for different reasoning ... Hone On !! NY made Cattaraugus Green Lizard for the win
The Shapton Pro when you say isn't "as fine" is a misnomer They are both 12k and have 12k meshed Grit But They are different Grit Material They have VASTLY different Binders The Naniwa SS might be the closest thing to a hone made for SR's they were actually designed to function like a JNat The Shapton Pro 12k much like the Naniwa Chosera 10k has a reputation for being too "Harsh" feeling for a SR finisher. they both make excellent Polishers however to lead into a Finisher as they are fast and accurate... I hope that makes it more clear ...
