I got a lot of help from the guys on here, and also from the website www.classicalcdguide.com If you have iTunes, I like to preview the music first and see if it interests me. Otherwise amazon.com also allows you to preview the music. Once you get a start, you'll find it gets easier to pick up things you might like. You get a feel for what composers and what styles you prefer, as well as what musicians you like for certain composers. I added my collection to my shave den page - you can see it by following the link in my signature.
I love baroque organ music. I had the opportunity to listen to someone playing on a great organ at Rice University and that was just amazing. For something a bit more recent, I love the power of the horns in Wagner's various works.
So in the 2 months since this thread started, I have thrown myself head first into classical music, buying this stuff like it is going out of style (probably is, given the mind-numbing stuff that passes for "music" these days). I have come to a few conclusions about my tastes: 1. Beethoven was, and remains, a genius. I can't find a composition by him that I haven't at least moderately enjoyed, and most I simply love. First and foremost are his piano sonatas - amazing how something so beautiful could come from the mind of one man, and one that was going increasingly deaf, for that matter. Additionally, I love his symphonies. 2. Never having owned anything by Brahms before, I now for the life of me can't figure out why that is. Next to Beethoven, this is my favorite composer. While I adore Beethoven's symphonies and piano sonatas, Brahms is the leader with me for chamber music, especially his Piano Trio No. 1. 3. Mozart amazes me for the sheer magnitude of work he produced, his versatility, as well as how many of his works I already loved without even knowing who wrote them. Try as I may, I have realized that opera is probably not as interesting to me as I had hoped - with the exception of Mozart's Magic Flute! Beyond that, my favorite works from him are his concertos for woodwinds, as well as some of his quintets (particularly his clarinet quintet). 4. I like Bach. Not my favorite (I'll attribute that more to generally preferring classical and romantic era composers over baroque), but some of his works still are standouts - his Brandenburg Concertos, and the Goldberg Variations. For Goldberg, I do enjoy Gould's recordings (actually, I only have the recording from the '80s), but I also heard an arrangement of them for a string trio which I think I almost prefer. So that is where I am at this point. I have also purchased Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" String Quartet, which I am evaluating, but thus far hasn't pulled me in like Beethoven or Brahms.
I haven't posted in here in way too long. I keep pulling up the page, but then get busy and close it or just forget to respond. Whoops. I'll try to remedy that. You're very right - Beethoven's late works are very rewarding. In the later part of his life, Beethoven favored the String Quartet for the expression of his musical ideas. He drifted away from the piano after stretching its capabilities with pieces like the Hammerklavier in favor of the larger capacity for expression inherent in a string quartet. The Große Fuge definitely is not an easily accessible piece. As you've realized, it requires multiple listenings to make much sense. It''s often thought that Beethoven was solely a romanticist. My argument is that Beethoven is as much a classicist as a romanticist. He's even more rooted in the classical form than the romantic in my opinion. While his music may sound romantic, analysis shows that he paid close attention to classical style and form. He was just very good at stretching the limitations of defined form. Even an analysis of the 9th will show a clear order (it's a sonata form). Take a look for it. I believe Wikipedia covers it decently enough (though I don't believe it's as detailed or as accurate as my studies have revealed). It's rather interesting in any case and worth a read. The Gardiner version of Brahms' "Ein Deutsches Requiem" is phenomenal. You made the right choice there. Gardiner's recordings are usually top notch and can't be beat. His recordings of Bach are all worthy of being a reference to which all other recordings can be compared. And the esszet - I usually just copy it from somewhere else that has it or use the insert-->symbol function in Word. Let us know which of Bach's pieces you like. I'd recommend taking a listen to Chopin's Mazurkas. You might also like some of Erik Satie's piano work. This recording is excellent. Mike made some good suggestions here. Also, try listening to Pandora - type in a composer you know you like and then kick back and listen.
Thanks, Dom. Great comments. I don't know that I can yet pick out styles like you talk about (not sure what is meant by the sonata style in Beethoven's 9th), but I do see Beethoven as being a bridge between the two periods. His work is stunning in just how much he evolved. Listening to his Razumovsky quartets as opposed to his late quartets is a great way to see that change. And while much of Brahms' early works seem to follow, almost without missing a beat, on the end of Beethoven's works, there is still, even to my ear, a definite shift in styles. I honestly thought that, getting into all of this, I was going to be a Beethoven/Mozart classical era fan, but I think now my preference may lay with the Romantic era and Brahms, even though Beethoven still remains at the top of the list. I wanted to ask you - given how much I am enjoying Beethoven and Brahms, what other composers should I look at? I picked up several CDs of Beethoven's symphonies performed by Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra. I had only seen a recommendation for the 3rd from him, but Barnes & Noble had 3 CDs, containing the 3rd and 8th, 1st and 6th, and 2nd and 5th by him on sale for only $7 each - I couldn't pass it up. I did pick up the 9th performed by Karajan (the '62 performance). Thanks for all the good input.
Mike - you actually touched on something I wanted to say but forgot to type up earlier. Beethoven is firmly grounded in the classical world, but was definitely, as you indicated, the bridge to the Romantic world. Listening to his pieces in chronological order is a wonderful learning experience. You have all the symphonies, so you can try it with those. The sonata form is a type of organization. It's like the skeleton. The typical piece written in sonata form (sonata form and a sonata/piano sonata/whatever sonata are different things) is comprised of the following structural characteristics. There is an introduction section (which may or may not be present). The material in the intro may or may not be found in the rest of the piece. Following is an exposition, where the thematic material is stated in the home key. (the exposition may have a number of subsections which can act in different ways than my brief summary). Next is a development, which continues off of the exposition and basically plays around with the exposition material, utilizing and altering its themes. New themes may also be introduced. A development often will shift keys and is the least stable section of a piece. The development will work toward the dominant in preparation for the next section which is... The recapitulation (recap), which can be a repeat of the exposition, or a slightly altered repeat of the exposition. And then finishes off with the coda, which contains previous material. They may or may not be present and can be as long or short as any of the other sections. Codas typically end in the home key. Beethoven's entire 9th symphony (all 4 movements) actually can be analyzed as a sonata form. The 4th movement can also be seen as a sonata form. Thus, the 9th symphony has a sonata within a sonata.
Didn't want to squish everything into one post: If you're enjoying Beethoven and Brahms, you might want to take a look at Robert Schumann. I haven't heard much of his work, but I think you might find some likenesses. Antonín Dvořák is another to look at, though he draws more inspiration from folk music. Additionally, try listening to Gustav Mahler. While it's a little bit further away from Beethoven/Brahms than the previous composers, you might also want to take a look at Richard Strauss, particularly his Eine Alpensinfonie. Szell is a fabulous conductor. One of the greatest to ever live in my opinion. I hope you enjoy them. As for the recording of the 9th - I have about 11 different recordings and haven't found one that I'm 100% pleased with yet. EDIT: You might also like Jean Sibelius. Also, with your fondness of both Beethoven and Brahms, I would almost expect you to enjoy Schubert. What have you listened to that Schubert composed?
Thanks for that explanation of the sonata form. I'll have to digest it a bit. Is there some kind of good basic book on music/music theory where I could gain a basic understanding to help my appreciation of this music? Now, the music. I do have one album of Schubert music - it contains the "Trout" Piano Quintet and the "Death and the Maiden" String Quartet. I haven't listened to it as much, as I bought it with several other recordings, and haven't fully gone through them all yet. I have a long day ahead of me, though, so will be listening to the MP3 player heavily - I'll make sure it is at the top of the list. I have a recording of Dvorak's Slavonic Dances that doesn't really do it for me. I'll look into Schumann, Mahler, and Sibelius, and Strauss, though. Incidentally, there is one symphony of Beethoven's that I don't yet have - the 4th. Part of me wants it, if for no other reason to have them all. But is it worth it? I don't hear as much about it. There is a Szell recording of it, but it is also with the 7th, which I already have with Kleiber conducting. Part of me wants the entire series of Szell conducting Beethoven's symphonies, so I would need that one, as well as his conducting the 9th symphony - is that recording any good? I looked up recommendations for the 9th, and the list included Karajan's 1962 and 1977 recordings, Furtwangler's '51 performance, and Gardiner, for a good period-style recording, but no mention of Szell.
I've got to run, but I can think of two very good textbooks off the top of my head. My favorite is Tonal Harmony, which is on my bookshelf. It assumes you already know the basics, though. The more introductory text is a book by the name of Duckworth. It's called something along the lines of A Creative Approach to Music Fundamentals I think. I don't have this one, so I can't tell you what's exactly in it. These are pretty expensive, from what I recall. If you want a cheaper option, I'll check out some of the Idiot's Guides and whatnot next time I'm in a bookstore and let you know if they're any good. I'll provide some more details later.
Whilst enjoying a drink and a cigar with my uncle, he introduced me to a suite of music by Gustav Holst (conducted by Adrian Bolt), titled 'The Planets'. All I can say is wow!! I'm not sure if any of you guys are familiar with it, but it has a movement devoted to each of the 7 planets (Pluto had not been discovered when it was written). Each planet is accompanied by their mythological god, i.e Mars-the bringer of War and reflects the temperament of the god. Mars is a brutal piece that evokes visions of total war (amazing considering it was written before WWI) whilst Jupiter is sort of a happy fat man, Saturn is a deeply contemplative piece and Uranus closely resembles 'the Sorcerer's Apprentice' . Needless to say I have tracked down a copy on CD as I think I will need to listen to it dozens of times in order to appreciate all the subtle nuances. Pete
I don't know where movie soundtracks fall in the opinion of classical music enthusiasts, but I thought I would point one out that is incredible. Ennio Morricone's score for "The Mission." Particularly, "Gabriel's Oboe" and "Miserere." "Gabriel's Oboe" features a solo oboe backed by strings. It is hauntingly beautiful. I noticed Yo Yo Ma has played an arrangement of of Gabriel's Oboe. I was impressed by this music the first time I saw the movie. My wife thinks it is boring - I tend to like more "boring" movies than she does, and how can you beat Jeremy Irons and Robert DeNiro? But the score by Morricone makes the movie.
Dvořák's Slavonic Dances are a completely different beast than his symphonies and chamber pieces. Before you discount him entirely, take a listen to his 7th and 9th Symphonies as well as some of his String Quartets. Here's the 4th movement of the 7th. Let me know what you think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XabJukpwUqk Also, had a chance to listen to any more Schubert? I'd suggest taking a listen to some of his late String Quartets. Schubert, from what I recall, had three main periods in composition style. He had an early period, a middle period, in which he emulated closely the style of Beethoven and achieved maturity as a composer, and a late period in which he found his own style (which is quite fantastic in my opinion). Schubert was quite possibly the greatest writer of lyrical melodies. This is quite evident in the 1st movement of Piano Sonata No.21 (D 960): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkH0cPzg-IU Some other good Schubert pieces are the Three Piano Pieces, D 946. I particularly like the second of the trio. It has a fabulous section where a melody is played using only notes of the same duration. No one but Schubert can pull something off like that. It's at the 4:50 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoMsV5VrpFA Also, give his Symphony No.9, "The Great," a listen. Beethoven's 4th Symphony isn't anything remarkable. It's always said that his better symphonies are the odd numbered ones (it's very strange, because with the exception of the 6th, it's generally accurate in my mind). For Beethoven's 9th, I like Furtwängler, Klemperer, and Toscanini. I haven't listened to the Szell recording in a while, but from what I remember, it's quite good. I think I might not have been thrilled with the bass soloist, but was fine with it otherwise. Pete - glad you're enjoying it. It's a great piece. If you like the relationship Holst created between the music and the Planet/God, you might want to take a look at Camille Saint-Saëns' Carnival of the Animals. Morricone is quite a brilliant composer. He is what John Williams and Danny Elfman and all those hacks should strive to be.
So Dom, I have been contemplating Schubert today. His "Great" Symphony definitely sounds like something I will add eventually, but for now I am preferring "smaller." While the "Death and the Maiden" Quartet hasn't moved me yet, in sampling some of his other quartets, I have enjoyed them. I'd like to get all the late ones (12-15), and I see only two choices for all of them together - Quartetto Italiano and Emerson String Quartet. I read pros and cons for both. I also see the Rosamunde and Death and the Maiden quartets by the Takacs Quartet, and I love their recording of Beethoven's middle quartets, but I already have a recording of Death and the Maiden by the Amadeus Quartet, and wouldn't want to buy the album for only half of what is on there (I know, eventually I'll be buying multiple recordings of the same piece, but right now I want a good survey, so not looking yet for multiples). Any thoughts on who performs these well? I am also enjoying his piano work, and am thinking of a recording by Pollini that has his late piano sonatas, as well as the D. 946 you mentioned. Is Pollini as good here as he is with Beethoven's late piano sonatas? Finally, I was pleasantly surprised when I sampled some of Schubert's Lieder - particularly, the "Winterreise." Part of it is just my fascination with the German language, and given that I was once fluent in that language (maybe not so much anymore), I enjoy these songs (another reason I enjoy Mozart's Magic Flute). I saw a recommendation for a Pears/Britten recording, but in listening to various samples, I think I prefer the baritone of Fischer-Dieskau to Pears' tenor. I know Schubert wrote it for tenor, but I also read that he had it performed by a baritone.
Glad you're liking Schubert more. You do some pretty good research, Mike. I have the Emerson String Quartet recording of Schubert's late String Quartets and I enjoy it greatly. I think that one is definitely a solid bet. Also, if you can find them, the recordings by the Alban Berg Quartet are very good. That Pollini CD you're talking about is an exceptional recording. Pollini is unmatched in his performances on that CD. I will wholeheartedly recommend it to you and strongly suggest you pick it up. Schubert's Lieder/Songs are also great pieces. Schubert, like Mozart, was very prolific, even though he died at an early age. Schubert wrote around 600 lieder if my memory serves me correctly. Personally, I generally prefer Fischer-Dieskau for the lieder.
I get introductory ideas of recordings from that classicalcdguide.com, but then I look at reviews, particularly the detailed reviews, on Amazon - not just the "sounds great" reviews. They help steer me away from certain recordings, or verify what others have said. More importantly, the good reviewers will also tell you who else to look at for a performance if they don't like the one you selected. I then listen to samples, either on Amazon, or iTunes. The CDguide and Amazon pointed me towards the Pears recording of Winterreise, but the tenor sounded annoying, and I thought I would prefer a German singing a German song - several reviewers suggested that Fischer-Dieskau really had the definitive performance, so I checked him out, and preferred it. Sorry, it must seem like I have made you my own private classical music tutor! I do appreciate all the suggestions - I've gotten some great music from them!
I really don't mind making suggestions. I'm always happy to speak about classical music. If you ever need to/want to ask, just do. That goes for anyone else. Don't be shy. I've recently become obsessed with Bach's Brandenburg Concerti again. Harnoncourt and Concentus Musicus Wien.
Honestly, I haven't gotten around to the Dvorak piece yet - I have been listening to a lot of Schubert. I recognized his piano sonata no. 20 (I believe) as the theme song for the TV show "Wings." Do you have a favorite recording of the Brandenburg Concertos? I have a recording by the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. I enjoy it a lot. Incidentally, I found something that I have enjoyed. On iTunes I found a podcast of classical music concerts performed at the Gardner Museum in Boston - primarily chamber music. There are a limited number available on iTunes, but if you go to the museum's website, they have an archive of all their recordings, and they are all free. They have performances from a broad spectrum of composers, and you can listen to the entire podcasts, or you can also download them by composer. It isn't stellar recording - you can frequently hear people coughing in the background, as it is a live concert. But it is nice in allowing someone to sample the works of multiple composers for free - and hear more than just 30 second snippets. I downloaded a few pieces of Dvorak's, but haven't gotten to them yet. What do you know of the Takacs quartet? I have them performing Beethoven's Rasumovsky, Harp, and Serioso string quartets, and really enjoy them. I have also seen that they have recordings of Beethoven's early string quartets, Brahms' string quartets, and Schubert's Death and the Maiden.
This thread has been an incredible resource for me, so I don't want to see it die out. It has been a little while since it started, and my classical music collection has grown exponentially in that time, thanks to the recommendations of the more learned people who have spoken up here. I wanted to pose this question. I know that picking any one piece as your favorite is probably a ridiculous thing to attempt, but if you think about what you are listening to now, is there one piece that stands out as, if not your all-time favorite classical piece, at least right now it is your favorite/most often listened to? Or a particular performer or conductor that you are listening to more than most? I'll post my thoughts on this. As to performers/conductors, there are a few that I have found I am buying multiple performances from - the Takacs Quartet and the Emerson String Quartet for stringed chamber music, Wilhelm Kempff and Maurizio Pollini for piano works, and George Szell for orchestral work. Right now, if I had to pick my favorite piece, at least for the present, it would have to be Brahms' Piano Trio No. 1 - that piece is magical to me, especially the first movement. I find myself listening to that more than anything else. I have it performed by Josef Suk, Julius Katchen, and Janos Starker.
