Also, while we are discussing. If a person receives a razor for, say Christmas, and puts it in the drawer for 50 years, then dies, a person settling the estate comes in and finds the razor and for the heck of it pulls out one of the blades and places it in the razor, it now ceases to be a new razor? The reason I say this is because I really doubt the blade has been in the razor all those years because there is no evidence of it. Whatever you want to call it, the razor is New and has never been used. I would guess that your argument is that it may be new, but once it leaves the original store or is purchased it is now officially not NOS. If that's the case then you would be correct because this came from an estate and my first scenario is probably fairly close to what happened.
I say it is perfect in every way. I guess some people would want the original receipt and the bag it came in.
Ok..........let's clear this NOS thing up and be done with it. No reason to drag this out..........won't end well most likely. Tod? First of all, you did nothing wrong at all. Your description was well meaning and we all knew what you meant. Heh, the accuracy may or may not be subject to debate, but no problem. Chris is actually a really nice guy, but he takes this 'hobby' pretty seriously. He knows more than most of us when it comes to razors, and is glad to share that info. He also has a sorta pet peeve when it comes to describing items. You may have noticed that........... Now, if I was gonna describe your wonderful find, I'd probably say something like 'Toggle looks like it was never used and in mint(no flaws of any kind) condition. Comes with a case and blade holder in excellent condition.......very little if any signs of wear on these items as well". There, maybe you can see the difference in what I wrote. I know it's subtle, but to collectors the wording is everything sometimes. We all have our own rabbit hole, and how deep it is can vary...........heh. I hope that helps a bit, and no more words with an edge on em are typed by anyone. Chris, I understand your point of view, and can also see why Tod might get a little defensive over your posts. Things like this happen sometimes, but it's easy to move past em. Martin
Just to throw my 2ยข in here.... To me, NOS means it is in the original packaging, nothing was opened, the razor would more than likely still have the cardboard insert where the blade should go, the blade pack would still be wrapped in cellophane which is how it most likely came, all the instructions would be there, etc.... Basically it'd be as if you traveled back in time, purchased the razor new and brought it back fresh off the shelf. I'd describe your razor as "mint", "minty", "flawless", "perfect condition", "probably (or possibly) never used", etc.... but no, not NOS - it lost that as soon as the person from the estate sale took the blade out of the blade pack and put it in the razor.
Thanks for clearing that up Martin. I apologize if I sounded edgy. I guess I'm just a grumpy old man. Ray
Nah........you were fine. Heh, I like good humored sarcasm and will even use it myself on rare occasions..........
Title changed. It's not that I mind the feedback, it's the WAY the feedback from Chris was presented. From his first post he questions my honesty, without even doing his research. I don't really know what he is implying, but he is implying something. This should be a welcoming place to newer members from the senior members not an opportunity to get on a soapbox. Luckily we have members like Martin that understand tact. Anyway, I have a feeling that this razor is the closest thing to NOS any of us will ever see in a Toggle, and it was a million to one shot that I even stumbled on to it. I'm glad I have it, and I'm glad to share it with TSD members. Tod
Tod, let me just say that as someone who is NOT an obsessive Safety Razor collector, your Toggle looks pretty damned NOS to me. Thanks for sharing it with us, and enjoy it to the fullest.
And I still say :drool no matter what the "official condition." Just enjoy that great find and thanks for the incredible photos.
Near mint works for me. I do apologize about my delivery. I saw this same Toggle posted at another razor site and no one, not one person, called you out on it. There is no fudge room with razor grading and by not telling you that your razor was not in fact NOS it may lead people to post up razors with blades inside as NOS in the future (think eBay, if that's NOS so is this!) so even though you may have no intention of selling it as NOS, it sets a bad example and precedent. TSD is a welcoming place to newbies. You just didn't want to hear the truth. This "other place" has good guidelines for grading razors. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66914
Ray, did I miss something? I haven't heard anyone call you old. :happy102 Here's my take on the NOS vs. mint: NOS is the condition it was in when it left the factory shipping dock on the way to a retailer. That is, in whatever packing, sealed to whatever degree it would have been when the original retailer took it out of the case and put it on his shelf. This would exclude shipping damage or packing errors. Mint is the condition it was in after the first time the original packing was opened and before it was used. After the first used, to the degree the use effect the condition, it would be minty/like new, excellent, very good, etc. If the first use was to dig an escape tunnel, it probably be fair or poor. I first encounter "New Old Stock" when buying old high-end bicycle parts. "New" refers to the condition. "Old" refers to the fact the item is no longer in production. I've also heard "Old Stock" which I think is either a shorthand for NOS, or refers to out of production items a retailer still has in their stock room.
I wish to make a public apology to todot62 and the board. I reread my replies and it did come across much harsher than I meant it to. No excuses but it is a subject I care about and I was in a rush to get fishing this AM. Sorry todot62. I'll take more care preparing my replies in the future.
Sorry Guys, I've been away for a while. Thanks Chris for your apology and I certainly accept. I do understand where you're coming from and indeed, according to "that other sight's" rating system, my toggle is not NOS. I think I would have a hard time calling it near mint, maybe near mint plus, or something? Anyway, I know I have a lot to learn and this seems like a good place to do that. There are some very knowledgeable folks on here, with Chris certainly being one of them. Tod
