I've been reading up on pyramid honing, but I'm a bit confused. I've understand that you do sequentially smaller amounts of passes. That makes sense to me. What I am confused about is regarding switching back and forth between grits. I'll be using a Norton 4k/8k. So, if I were to use a pyramid method would I do 25 laps on the 4k, then 25 on the 8k, then 20 on the 4k, then 20 on the 8k, and so on? Also, can anyone speak to the effectiveness of this method as opposed to a regular progression of one stone until done then moving on to another?
I've only ever seen Lynn's vids on it. If he does it then there is value. It just may be something that until you get consistent results using the basics, it may just be worth waiting. I'm sure one of the meisters will say something shortly.
If you set the bevel, any system will work... The pyramid is designed to allow a new honer to go along a prescribed route, it gives a repeatable sequence and lets you see and feel the edge progress into shaving sharp... The best part though it is sneaks up on the edge slowly, if you follow the instructions and do your part you will get an edge... The problem with learning to hone is Patience, you have to climb each rung of the ladder, if you skip a step you will fail... Hints: Learn a pyramid on either a new razor or use one that has dropped into dull, from being a shaver.. DO NOT try your first pyramid on an unknown E-bay razor Do not try and hone your first razor and make it a wedge or heavy grind.. Pick something to learn on that is straight and in good shape.. If you hone for one hour and it doesn't happen STOP walk away from it until tomorrow and start again... The biggest reason for failure when learning to hone is not getting the bevel set. Some of those hints are for any new honer on any system...
The pyramid approach is just one of several different ways to approach honing. I daresay that among experienced straight-razor users, probably no more than half use the pyramid method. I shave with a straight and I have never used the pyramid. I go from coarse to fine in a linear progression.
I've done about 800 laps on the 4k with this little injun and it still won't cut any hairs off my arm. Does that sound crazy or do I need to just keep at it?
800 Laps on a Boker Injun is NUTZ you are doing something wrong or the razor was breadknifed... (I am assuming on the Boker brand ) Tell me the history of the razor and I'll try and walk you through it,, history as in was it shave ready at one point ?? what made it not shave ready ?? what have you done besides 800 laps????
Yeah, it's a Boker Red Injun 100 4/8. I said 800 laps, but I actually meant 400 (400 back + 400 forth). Then I tried the pyramid method outlined on the SRP wiki. This one was pretty dull. It's one that I got from my bro-in-law (Dr. Dead) from his grandfather's collection. I don't know when the last time it was shave ready. I got three other razors shave ready with this stone tonight. A Boker King Cutter, an AJ Jordan "Old Faithful", and another one who's name was obscured. All of these were already pretty close and just needed some refreshing.
Norton Honing The good news is that you have succeeded in using the stone, which means it is the razor not you... Each razor is different, the Injun just needs a little extra on the bevel set, everything about honing starts with a solid bevel set.. Let's get yours done.. On the home page of SRP there are some vids that rotate, you want to watch the one of Lynn and I at Razorcon NC 2009... (I don't have the link on you tube or I would put it up) He is going to demonstrate the "20 Circles to Sharp" routine, this is what you need to use before the Pyramid... If you have the ability of making a bit of slurry on the 4k it will help... You need to follow Lynn's routine on there and do 20 circles on each side using pretty good pressure, check the edge, sharp??? Yes.) do 20 circles with light pressure No.) do 20 more heavy pressure circles check again and repeat until the edge feels like the sharpest knife you have ever touched... After the 20 light circles do 20 X strokes to even out the edge... Once you get to that point then start the Pyramid process and take it from there... In that vid you will see me test the edge on the arm to make sure it is cutting hair before we go higher, that is a pretty sure fire test, although we did find a guy at that meet, that a fully shave ready razor did not pop his arm hair so it isn't 100% ... Keep in mind that the Pyramid is a learning method, you most certainly can branch into Progression honing or even "One Stone Hone" but learning with a pyramid gives you a solid base to work from.. Norton 8k trick: To get the absolute out of this stone try the "Go to Dry Technique" After you think you are there, let's push the edge a bit... Rinse and clean the 8k, use your finger to wipe off most of the water pooled on the top... Very very lightly very very slowly start doing perfect X stroke making sure they are as smooth as you can possibly get them... Somewhere between 10-20 laps the stone will dry out to just damp, Stop , Strop ,Shave, & Smile
I appreciate the "can do" attitude. I watched that video yesterday, but I wasn't sure if the circles technique was too advanced for me. I'll give it a try tonight and report back.
Gave it a quick go on my lunch break. About 160 circles on each side, and still no luck, except at the heel. The heel will pop hairs. I forgot to do the X strokes, which I guess would explain the unevenness. I'll try it again tonight.
Take a close look at the edge, before you start back in there... Watch this Video Use the part where Toxik talks about looking for "Blunting" that is the test you need.. It will give you an idea of how much work is needed.... Remember 20 circles then 20 more then check...
Hmmm. No blunting, no wire edge. Upon inspection I did notice that the bevel does not appear to be even on both sides.
Ok we're both missing something here, an Injun just should not be that tuff to hone, even starting on the 4k... Are you using tape or no tape??? add one more layer regardless and then see if you get it to pop an edge.. If it does then even it up and then drop to one layer max and work it from there...
I haven't used any tape on the spine. I was watching some more of Lynn's videos and his hone looks much cleaner than mine. I lapped mine yesterday, but there already seems to be a dirty looking build up toward the center of the hone. Do you think I need to lap it again?
What are you lapping with ???? It should not make a huge difference, but you are working the 4k a bit hard as a bevel setter, so it wouldn't hurt...
Just using sandpaper on the countertop. I'll try to get some photos of the blade up today. Maybe you'll see something that I don't.
The razor may warped and not laying flat on the hone. Use a black marker on the edge so you can see if there is an area where the marker is not being removed. If so, you will need to do a rolling X or get a narrower hone.
It looks pretty flat, but then again I'm a newb and don't have much honing experience. I'll try to capture as much of the blades details as I can in the photos. Thanks to both of you for your help. You are two of the guys I would most trust with my straights, so I appreciate the advice. If I can't get this think honed myself it may be coming your way Glen.
John, I am working on some honing Vids right now, I am going to do one just for you, using a Boker and a Norton 4/8 only, Give me a day or two so I can finish the custom scales on these two Bokers that are on the bench.. I will gladly Hone that razor for you No Charge if you can't get it to pop after the Vid
Ok just shot the Vid using a 5/8 Boker King Cutter, and the Norton 4/8 let me edit it a bit shorter, to fit Youtube and I will try and get it uploaded by tomorrow
