Up until now, I've successfully ignored brush discussions and have not had any signs of SBAD, save for a cheap Turkish No. 6 I bought on a whim. Recently I won a beautiful butterscotch Baton handle and I need to get it filled. I understand it takes a 18mm knot, which seems to limit my options. I checked out The Golden Nib and found two choices in 18mm, a Silvertip Grade A, and a Best Badger. Now I can read the TGN descriptions of their knots and get a sense of how they compare to each other, but I don't know how that relates to what I currently use, a Vulfix 660S Super Badger. I am primarily a face lather and the aspect I love most about face lathering is the face massage I get. Sometimes I think that a stiffer brush would be better for the massaging aspect, but I do love how soft my current brush is. Another aspect of my current brush that I really like is that it holds a ton of water. So much so that when I use the Marco technique on a soap, I still give it a shake or two or I'll get drenched when lathering. From my understanding, my current brush is somewhere in the middle of my two knot choices, but I'm not sure what affect the new knots smaller size will have. The specs on my current brush are: Overall height: 100 mm Handle height: 50 mm Bristle loft: 50 mm Knot diameter: 20 mm If someone could give me a sense of what I could expect, relative to what I have now, it would be a great help. Discussions about how high I should set the loft (is that the right way to phrase it?) would also be helpful. I want to get this knot ordered! 6 weeks ago I went to a local antique mall and found several old brushes, but passed on them because the knot looked horrible. Now I'm tempted to go back and take a closer look at the handle to see if I can find one or two worth restoring.
I don't have suggestions or advice; sorry. But I am curious - what's the "Marco technique" you use on your soaps?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/199887-My-lathering-technique-with-Italian-soft-soaps It works well with soft italian soaps and some harder soaps as well. It's messy though. If i don't shake some water out, i nearly get a bath when i take the brush to my face.
All I can give is my opinion. I have a TGN silvertip and it is great, soft and luxurious, also have pure badger, stiffer and some prickliness, but really like both. My suggestion is go back to the antique mall and pick up a couple of handles and get both, along with a boar knot (which I also like very much). Can't have too many brushes.
Pat, I mentioned it before but I'll put it here too. I've had some talks via email with some known custom brush makers who use TGN knots and the 2 grades they recommend the most to use is the SilverTip A and the Finest. That stinks that the Finest doesn't come in an 18mm knot as I think that would give you what you're looking for. I wonder if you could widen the hole a bit to make room for it. I know not of these things, just kind of throwing ideas out there.
TGN best is pretty scritchy. Their silvertip is good. I highly recommend their 2-band finest; nice soft tips but very good backbone.
Couldn't agree more with the above. The scritchiness of TGN best does subside with usage. Their finest is by far the best knot I've used from their range. I found the silvertip to be a bit gutless to be honest but if you can get the extra hair versions (not available in 18mm so a moot point I guess) it's a different story. For a relatively small handle like the one you're re-storing, I personally wouldn't have a loft greater than 45-48mm if you appreciate a bit of backbone. But then I'm a dedicated stick and face latherer so a small brush with backbone is pretty much all I use. Don't let the "Marco technique" guide your choice of knot or how it's set in the handle. It basically results in gobs of lather and with that little brush you'll be up to your wrists in the stuff. Having restored a few myself it would be adviseable to wait until you've got the handle in your possesion before ordering a knot. I know it's tempting to get both the handle and knot in front of you so you can put it all together but a careful measurement of the handle can save you a ton of grief before ordering the knot. If you check the TGN website they specify the size of the plug which can vary from the generic stated dimension of the knot (i.e. an 18mm knot can have plug dimensions ranging from 16.5 to 17.5mm). If your handle has a 17mm aperture you can ask them to select you a 16.5mm plug from their 18mm knot range. If you end up with a plug that's too big for the hole you'll either have to widen the hole or reduce the size of the knot. Both are doable but it's preferable to avoid it. Have fun!
Thanks for the input. Excellent point about using the Marco method with a small knot. I'm still playing around with lathering techniques and use that no more than 15% of the time. BTW, I do have the handle in hand, and will measure the opening with my calipers. I was looking at the TGN website again, trying to find this extra hair silvertip you speak of. I didn't find it, but I did see under "New Products for April", they had the 18mm Finest Badger Hair Knot, but when I click on it, I get "Sorry, product not found". I'll have to contact them about it. It sounds from what I'm hearing that the finest would be the way to go.
They're out of stock and will probably have more in 2 weeks. Until then, I'll figure out what glue to buy and how to glue it in there.
It's under the description as "extra stuffed" in 20 and 22mm and a few others I think. Not available in 18mm unfortunately. You can't really go wrong with their finest.
Moe, was the collar opening 20mm? If not I doubt an 18mm Grade A or Finest will fit. As for the breakdown on what to buy, personal taste and style is all that matters... You will probably like the Finest if you like 2 band, its easily competitive with any other high end 2 band except Morris & Forndran's Blonde Badger; nothing touches this that I'm aware of. Pat, as for the epoxy you can go down to Home Depot or Walmart and buy the 5 Minute Loctite Waterproof Epoxy/Resin and glue it down with that, costs less than $4 if I remember correctly.
I've restored quite a few brushes using TGN's various grades of badger, in various sizes and shapes. Much of what I say echos that previously stated. Finest grade is by far my favorite and many will agree. Just enough scritch and good backbone and flow through. I actually prefer the bulb shape but in such a small knot, a fan might serve you better. The loft at which you set the knot will play a huge roll in performance. Shorter is stiffer. Taller more flow and a bigger "face print." Their Super Badger is a very nice knot as is their A grade. Both very soft. Too soft for me. The Best is very scrubby. I like it once in a while and in the "black" version looks cool. Unless you like very soft and not that much back bone, stay away from standard grade silvertip. I used it in a beautiful green and black Eveready and I think I'm going to drill it out and start over. Just too limp. Sizing can be an elusive thing. You might be surprised to find that with a little tweaking, a knot labeled 20 mm will work in what you think to be an 18 mm handle. (be careful) If you buy the wrong size they'll always swap it for the correct one for you. Give Vanessa a call at TGN and she'll help you. Sometimes they've got something that's not available on the website. Good luck and show use photos when you're done!
If memory serves me correct, it's right at 18mm, so I don't think a 20mm (even a smaller one) is going to fit. Which unfortunately may rule out the finest. As Aaron mentions, you should be able to find a decent epoxy at most hardware stores. I've seen many type that they use a 5 minute epoxy, and that probably works fine, but most epoxy that I find that are for plastics, are water proof, and claims of high heat resistance (assuming you soak in HOT water) are around 20-30 minute epoxy and dry clear or light amber. I've also heard that RTV cement/sealer works plenty good, and will allow you to remove the knot in the future (though I have no experience with this). Moe
I honestly wouldn't go with a knot size larger than the actual size of the collar, Tony and I have gone through boxes of knots in the past trying to make things fit. You're pretty darned lucky *or unlucky depending on how you look at it* getting something larger to fit without sanding the plug down; especially with the Grade A and Finest, the Best plugs are smaller. The Black Badger is actually "Pure"
Eep... I don't think an 18mm knot is going to fit then... unless he goes with the Best or Pure, the other grades tend to bulge 2mm more than the actual size listed... Moe, the 5 minute deal, if you read closely says to let sit overnight for full hold, I've used the stuff to even build floors in my brushes with no problems at all.
And that's one of my main issues...I have only had one badger brush...ok 2 if you count the Shea Moisture brush. I'll measure the opening with my calipers and contact TGN about what will fit and what they have. I'm hoping they get the finest back in stock, and will have one that fits. Thanks guys, the advice and input is greatly appreciated!
I just ordered the 18mm finest! I measured the opening at 18.16mm with my calipers and sent that measurement along with my order.
Pat tied it back in his first post with a link to this thread: http://theshaveden.com/forums/threads/butterscotch-handle-to-make-your-own-brush-done.27606/ He was responding to the PIF that Moe had provided. Hope that helps.
