This is to new honers here who want to save some money but still get into honing. When I started honing, I didn't really know what was required and the guy I talked to at the company had me believing that I was also going to need a coticule after already purchasing a BBW (belgian blue whetstone). Well, almost $400 later I had what I needed and it turned out I didn't even need the BBW nor did I ever use it. This guy had me believing that I would need the BBW to set the bevel and then go onto the coticule to finish. Thats a pretty simplistic instruction, leaving out the use of slurrys, pressure amount of water to slurry and such. You can honestly cut a bevel much better and faster with a fast coticule with a thick slurry than you ever could with a BBW no matter how much slurry you use. But after buying alot of different coticules of different hardness, looks, and cutting speeds, I got curious about the nice little 8×2 BBW I had never really used. I found that to cut a bevel faster with it, it was better to use it dry with long fast strokes until you had your bevel properly set. Then I went to using water and the most amount of slurry I could conjure up, gradually diluting it as I went along, all the while checking my edge with my 60× LED handheld microscope to observe the changes. Finally, I finished on just water alone as my stone does not self-produce much slurry if at all so I didn't have to keep getting rid of any slurry and respray the stone. Well, I was able to produce an edge that could not be differentiated from a coticule edge. It was just as keen. Now granted, it takes alot longer and is kinda frustrating, especially coming from using a coti and being accustomed to how long it takes to get to a certain level of keenness. But the bottomline is that I was able to go from bevel setting stage to polishing and shave ready stage with a BBW. Now is this the best option? No, and nowhere in this post did I say that, but to many in this hobby it seems that saving money is the utmost goal which I really don't subscribe to but whatever. So if you're looking to only spend about $40-60 and have a stone that will take your dull blade to shave ready and no, not a bad shave ready, a truly shave ready razor then go with the BBW and forget the coticule. It's slower but if you're just starting out, you're not going to realize that anyway and when you do decide to spend a little more and go to a coti or a series of j-nats, you will be pleasantly surprised. The BBW can also be used effectively to refresh a dull, tugging razor also just as a barber hone does. I think the grit rating they attribute to BBW's is really misleading also. A 4000-6000 grit rating of a BBW is completely different in feeling and effectiveness than an artificial grit rating of that level. I realize this has been an issue to argue over bigtime at SRP and other areas on the net. I liked what one guy had to say about it and couldn't agree with him more. "Some of the threads attributed to this topic are shameful, nothing else, and the protagonists are a disgrace to the shaving scene. Allegedly, these hillbillies are in it for the love of razors and the promotion of the hobby. Yeah, right. And that is why far more than 50% of their manglement team are vendors. Or supervendorators. Or spineless, scheming liars. Disgusting." "Oh, yeah. You can hone and maintain a razor with a BBW. Which means that unless you intend to enter the commercial circle jerk and require a means to maximise profit by mass honing razors, you will only need a BBW (€35) and maybe a 1k synthetic to speed things up (€15" This is what I'm getting at. Of course there are faster, better ways to hone a razor but most all of us are not doing mass honings where time is money. So for the guy just starting out, and doesn't want to spend alot of money, you surely can get away with just buying a cheap piece of real estate of BBW and grt by fine for the rest of your life with shaving edges every bit as good as a coticule produces. Thing is, most people, if not all that get into this past the first initial excitement of doing something new, will inevitably want to get other hones and will spend greater and greater amounts of money. Especially when you start getting into japanese natural stones. The list is endless with those because of the uniqueness of each stone having a different look to it. Best of luck to those of you getting started and perfect practice makes perfect. Stick with it and you will be rewarded. Thanks for taking the time to read.
I've not really spent alot of time on internet forums but have done a little research and I apologize to others for wasting their time with this thread. I didn't realize nor could I fathom how this topic has been beat to f $/=%^ing death. I just thought maybe for the new guys just getting into it with their Gold Dollars, poor mans strops and all, this would be a perfect hone to have without the need for buying anything further. Myself, I'm glad I bought higher quality hones but if I didn't have or didn't want to spend the money, a BBW would have been good enough.
Natural stones in general can be iffy due to the grade of the stone (There are those that went through 5-10 to find the cutting speed they wanted). I prefer synthetic now just because they're very predictable in performance.
I have one coticle I can hone some extra hollow blades with, the other just a finisher. Same with my JNAT. Never tried the BBW side, though I think Glen Mercurio or someone on SRP talked about honing on BBW. I find success with Naniwa and lapping film. I admire people who can get a natural to work for them.
My next rock is going to be an Ohira Suita Renge that looks almost identical to the one Keith V Johnson hones with on YouTube and some naguras. I'm looking at about $1000 purchase but I'll probably not buy another hone for a long time. I just don't see the purpose in getting anymore coticules as I already have one that performs and looks alomost identical to a Salm Rock (a La Dreissante) and then I have a nice hard finisher I bought from Howard plus a La Veille Rouge and one other just basic, I think its a La Grise 50×175. So I just feel that I've got enough variety and to throw more money for them just to see if I get an even better one seems like a waste of time. I kind of like my razors a little on the dull side and I confirmed that today while shaving with my shavette, they are just too damn sharp, especially when going ATG. Every little follicle bump gets shaved off and blood starts emitting and thats just too sharp. Most y coticule edges may exfoliate the face a little more but they don't open up skin at the slightest provocation. So who knows, I may not like my jnat edges once I get it but at least I'll have a beautiful one. These I can see why people collect them. They have the beauty of jewels, natures art for sure. I think even people who could care less about shaving and razor honing would find the value in them.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this, and I don't believe you wasted my time (or yours) by expressing your views. I'm new to straight razors, and had I understood the coticule better when I first began to learn honing, I probably would have stayed with it. As it is now, I'm using a set (1-3-5-10) Naniwa super stones and I'm getting along well with them. It's good to know I can get along with only the coti (or BBW) if I have to. Once again, thanks.
I appreciate your thanks, I do. But I'm really surprised that I didn't get the posters of the forums on this thread with repeated "Huh"s and "You do know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum don't you?!?" My thought on it is, yeah so some topics have been discussed and if you want to get down to brass tacks, there's really no need for any threads besides maybe about 12, one on shaving, one on razors, one on honing, one on stropping, one on lathering, maybe one or two on collecting and a few more and that's about it. I mean, we are just talking about shaving here. Are there forums devoted to brushing your teeth and all the different toothbrushes and pastes, or forums on q-tips and other daily necessities in grooming? No, but the fact remains that new people are coming into this hobby daily and they aren't going to see all the old threads right away so there is a purpose for this thread and thousands of others like it that bring up topics that have been brought up before. It's a forum, that's what its for I think. So thank you for being appreciative and thanking me. Tact and gentlemanly-like gratitude is a very rare trait to have or see on any forum.
One thing I have discovered about TSD is how respectful members are to one another, and tolerant of differing opinions. I have rarely witnessed any of the bitter sniping or verbal abuse often seen on other forums (shaving or other subject matter). This trait is one of the reasons I have enjoyed participating in this particular forum, and hope others find it equally welcoming. This thread has gotten more traffic than the number of replies indicate. I've learned there are many silent lurkers who do appreciate the content being shared. I also appreciate the the time and effort you've put into the topic. Being a relative newb in the world of straight razor shaving, I sometimes feel 'sponge-like' attempting to absorb as much info as possible for others more experienced. My set is currently a Naniwa 1k, norton 4/8, and a chinese 12k finisher. It's an entry level set-up, affordable, and his given me a good experience at honing as I become familiar with how these stones behave and my technique improves.
They are on sale on badgerandblade and straightrazorplace forums BST from time to time. Also, there are online suppliers.
Thanks SaintAccardo to take the time to write this up. I have bought a BBW just for the purpose you meant: Not enough cash to buy a coticule or a set of stones. It is interesting that you found a way to hone faster on your BBW. I think I will give it a go. See where it will end. Still learning. Someday I'll have a well honed straight!
Hey guys, again, I'm actually flattered at your comments. I'm not used to this at all but greatly appreciate it. Yes, Holyrollah, you are right about this forum being much friendlier and much less full of arrogant "Razor Yodas" than the other forums. I don't even post over at those other forums. Why waste my time? And to me it just seems that one is casting pearls before swine for the most part. As far as the BBW is concerned, and I've had this experience also, my BBW is harder than any of my coticules and actually seems to finish the edge better than my yellows. It just seems to me, for the money that they cost, there is such a wide variance between yellows and looking at all my coticules under 200× magnification, I have some that have alot less than the 30-40% and I would say are more like 5-10% garnets if I had to put a number on it and at the same time, my bbw has more than I'd say 15-20% garnets. But then the size of the garnets comes into question but I honestly, at these magnification levels don't see alot of difference in size between the bbw and yellows but then again, I don't think I can make an accurate comparison down to the micron level for sure with just eyeing them even under this magnification. And as far as bbw being a natural rock and differing between rocks, of course but I've also noticed thatthere Iis much more uniformity between different bbw's than there is between yellows where there is a wide variance. Honestly, unless your lucky enough to get a yellow that actually has the claimed 30-42% garnet composition with the 5-15 micron size variance, then I think its almost better to go with a bbw. You'll be much more apt to get a stone that is harder than a yellow, with a higher garnet count thus finishing your edges better. This is all from my actual experience along with actual checks between all my rocks under ample magnification to make this claim. Again, though, bbw's aren't nearly as pretty or come in the many different varieties and that's half the fun right there. As far as results, unless you get lucky, and I do mean lucky, I think you're better off going with a bbw. Now this arguement precludes all other natural stones. If you include other stones like an escher or jnats, then my point is moot because those are capable of a better edge than either a yellow or blue.
BBW is a very underrated stone. In my experiences it performs very well and leaves an excellent edge that makes a great shave. BBW comes from the same area and producer as the famed coticules., and are often priced lower. As for the forums , I have to agree that the most respectable gentleman are on this forum. I am part ofs several others and find myself always coming back to here because there is "no critisim" of ideas, techniques or procedures which makes for delightful conversation without ridicule. Keep it up TSD!
Alas, it appears the author of this thread is no longer available to participate in this discussion. However, I must say I have been quite impressed recently with what I can manage from my humble Nortons & Chinese waterstone. The Naniwa 1k made the biggest difference. Someday I may upgrade to the other Naniwas as the Nortons are a bit used (I got them 2nd hand), but best to 'hone' my skills with what I gots... I second your observations, Joe!
I love the Naniwas for ease of honing. If you try the Belgian Blues, though they may be cheaper, I think they are harder to learn and take a lot more strokes. The same is true for JNAT. Each coticle is different and can be hard to learn. If you want to go for inexpensive and easy to learn, try lapping film. As to the OP's comments about forums, I've found good citizenship and gentlemanliness on all the shave forums. I have not seen the criticism he spoke of in any shaving forum. I'm a member of badgerandblade, shavenook, straightrazorplace and theshavingroom.co.uk as well as theshaveden.
It is my belief that one gets out of forums what one puts into them. Some folks behave belligerently or condescending in attitude and thus draw the ire of other members. If one is there to merely instigate, odds are his membership will be short lived.
I Also Agree, The ladies and gentlemen on this forum are people of the first order, and are only too willing to help and pass on their knowledge, with regards to stones I have a Naniwa 1k for bevel setting, A norton 4/8k combination stone, and a Naniwa 12k for finishing, and although I am still a complete novice when it comes to honing, I am getting results that I am happy with!!!
