Had to try a J Nat, did I buy the wrong one?

Curiosity killed the cat and definitely costs me money. So my feat that I could possibly be getting a better shave if I had a J Nat resulted of course in buying one.

I bought one listed as Nakayama Aisa LV4, I am looking for finisher but I could not find a reference to this specific stone anywhere. So honing gurus and rock hounds what is this? Is it a finisher? or is it paper weight?


Some shaving humour:
When the packaged arrived my main girlfriend was with me. 'She asked what is that?' I told her it is whetstone for sharpening my razors. Her reply, 'You mean it is a rock.' I explained how it is from Japan etc. etc.. Her reply 'What is wrong with Korean rocks? I can find plenty for free.' I tried to explain how this is different. Her response 'You are obviously too bored, you are over paying for rocks which can be had for free and your trying to kill yourself shaving with a knife. You need to focus more on work.'

My only response was, 'it just like you buying the expensive used violin when a new one can be had for a fraction of the cost.' Her reply, ' I don't want to talk to you now.'

 

That could be a nice stone. Get a small dmt diamond card to create a slurry. Then try to hone on it and see how fast the slurry turns grey then black. Did this come from JNS?

 

It came from Metal Master JP. I bought a slurry stone with it but I also have a dmt.

To use this to maintain my straights do I create a slurry or just use water? Or both?

I appreciate the info as I am definitely a novice at this.

 

Sorry I can't help with your delimma but thank you super funny!

 

What slurry stone. Did they call it a Tomo? The answer to your question depends on several factors. What is the current edge/s condition.

 

The slurry stone is called Tanba Honyama Aoto. All my edges are in good shape. I also bought a couple of cheap straights to practice honing and they need the bevel set.

I have DMT and also a Naniwa lapping stone.

 

Most J-nats are sought after as a finisher because the Slurry is Friable (It breaks down) this allows the actual finish of the slurry to be potentially more fine then the wet stone alone..

You are going to have to not only learn the stone but you must learn how to use the slurry to the most advantage... Especially if you are going to add different Nagura to the mix

If you start with a very well known razor that you are comfortable with ou can experiment with working the slurry from the base stone and figuring out the best way to use that..
From there you can start adding different Nagura and take your honing in a different direction

The biggest issue with J-nats is people trying to qualify them using abstract levels and ratings which basically mean little to nothing in the real world


Work with the stone and play in the mud and just when you think you have it dialed in then try it a different way

 

You do not want to use the Naniwa lapping stone on your beautiful new Jnat. You do need to check if your Jnat is flat. The pencil technique is iffy. Use a known straight edge and a bright light to check all angles for flatness. If it is not flat, search for info on lapping powders that you can use on a hard flat surface like marble. Or use wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface. Progress from the highest grit that will get the job done. Maybe 600 progressing to 2000. Not only do you want it flat, you want it smooth. The Tomo will also help smooth out the surface after it is flat. Tomo means like, or similar to the base stone. Check out Tomonagura.com. A masters thesis on Jnats.

Why are some Jnats $4000 and some $100. Why does a Chosera 1k cost $90 and a King 1k $40. It is a combination of cutting efficacy and partical consistency. For naturals it is more about cutting speed. With synthetics is is about cutting speed and consistency of particle size. In other words if I have a Chosera 4K I don't want rogue 2k scratches from it. A Chosera 1k leaves a beautifully consistent scratch pattern. Lesser stones not so much. This makes the work of the next stone in the progression easier and more effective.

 

Thank you for all the great info. I'm curious to give this stone a try this weekend.

 

I recommend honing in the morning. Then hone before lunch. Then hone for a bit after lunch. I really like honing in the afternoon. I always hone before dinner. Honing after dinner is highly recommended. Never go to sleep before honing. In other words if you really want to achieve a shaving edge off of a piece of rock, you need to hone and hone and hone. This is not rocket science, but it is not easy either. It takes feel, visual and sound cues, and those cues take practice. You also need to learn some edge tests.

Tomato test, tree top test, hanging hair test(HHT) thumb pad test, thumbnail test. These test will help you judge how sharp the edge is. Not so much about how smooth.

 

Tomato test?

 

LOL! I had this discussion with my wife when I started with Belgian stones in 2005. I told her it was just like diamonds, the artificial ones are just as brilliant and are a fraction of the price. She understood.

 

I know the type. Sassy. Usually right. Likes small animals but not small packages. I can see where this is going. (38 years experience)

 

Good info here already for you but want to reinforce a few points. Learn with a razor your very familiar with honing already, flat edge would be ideal meaning not a smiling blade. All jnats are different so takes lots of experimenting. Prep by flatening and taking down the edge of the stone at 45 degrees. I like honing at night, grab a glas of wine or whatever you like. Helps when the finger gets sore. When you want to shatter it and toss the razor into the drink just refill and hone some more. It becomes very relaxing and enjoyable once you get to know your stone. Use all your senses, the tactile differences when held in hand and when on a base or leg, the visual cues as the edge undercuts the microscopic tsunami the entire lenth of the blade, the sound of the metal rolling over the particulate refining the scratches with no audible bumps or inconsistencies. And yes even the scent of fresh clean water on the stone and how it changes as it mixes ever finer with rock and metal. Enjoy, it is well worth the effort.

 

So I had some time Sunday and decided to give it a go with my Hart Steel 7/8. I usually maintain this razor with my one and only finishing stone, a Shapton ceramic 12k followed by a pasted strop. Today I did not finish with a pasted strop and wanted to feel the edge unaltered.

While I was lapping the stone my smart alec girl friend stopped by my apartment. She asked 'Why are rubbing your pet rocks together? Are you trying to breed them? I have bad news for you, they are hard to breed and you are better off trying to clone them." I told her 'I feel productive today and that after I breed my pet rocks I will refinish one of your old violins, it looks like it could use some paint.' Her response, 'I don't want to talk to you now and don't even think about touching one of my babies (violins).'

Back to the razor, I finished it with just water after the slurry, the edge looked good under the loupe and sliced up the tomato. The shave felt rough but I checked with the alum and there was no irritation. I did not get a close shave though. My first try with the stone was a fail. I bought some cheap SR to practice honing with so next week I will give it another go.

 

Sorry if I missed some details, but what did you set the bevel with, or was it already set and you were just refreshing.

 

The bevel was already set and I was just refreshing.

 

Try finishing with some edge trailing strokes on water. Not too many and keep them light. Then strop on linen and leather and try again, Also try some Mothers Mag and Aluminum polish rubbed into denim, then linen leather. Todd at the science of sharp has been testing various pastes and finds this one on denim does not create a wire edge. The edge trailing stroke increase sharpness and the Mothers (aluminum oxide) will create a polished micro-convex and remove any burr.

By the way the science of sharp has produced SEM images that dispel the myth that Jnat slurry breaks down. There has to be another reason that the edge seems to continue to refine with a final slurry.

 

I will give that a try. I don't have Mother's Mag polish, not sure if it is sold in Korea. Thanks for the tips.

 

It is simply a metal polish. He states that many work the same. That is just the one he tested. Look on the ingredients for aluminum oxide. The reason he suggests denim is that any large particles will fall through or be softened by the denim.