razor won't get sharp

Peter, it wasn't mentioned before so I'm glad you said it. Making sure the hone a flat is very important.

 

The difference doesn't lie between the manufacturers but between the countries. The grit sizes of German, American and Japanese hones are NOT comparable as they follow different scales.

3 Microns is FAR too coarse to get a really good, shaveable edge from, you NEED a 0.5 diamond or better chromium oxide -pasted strop (10 laps per side with medium pressure tops!) to set the second bevel and get a lasting edge. Or you need a FAR finer stone like a vintage Escher, a Chinese 12k or a very fine Japanese Natural stone to get a shaveable edge right off the hone. I'm reluctant to recommend barber hones for this job, mostly because I don't have much experience with them and because there are so many different types out there - good and bad. However, a Norton 8k is nowhere near fine enough to get a shaveable edge.

 

It would surely help if you would post what tools (hones, strops) you have available. Also post what you have tried so far - we're gonna get you there! :happy088

 

You're right on saying the grit difference lies between the grit sizes different countries use. I remember seeing someone post a summary of this some where and there was quite a difference.

3 micron is certainly too course for the purposes of a shaving edge but I have chatted with a fellow on another forum whose convinced of the reality of getting great, shave-worthy edges off the 8k. Now, every face reacts differently so it might be good for him and not for me. Who knows.

Using the barber hones probably wasn't a good idea but I used them to get experience (and because I'm too stubborn to listen to reason sometimes) and it turned out great. It could have just as easily gone sour on me. I did stick with a couple that I knew were well spoken of as finishing hones to try and minimize bad results.

 

Yes, please do! They got me there, they'll get you there too. Plus, it would add to the value of this thread for others facing similar issues.

 

Well, it really depends on the barber hone. If you have one, try it - in your case it was the key. But I really want to stress that it's not advisable to go for whatever barber hone pops up on ebay right now, so I don't want to recommend a barbers hone as a good solution for everybody. There are good brands, there are bad brands and the difficulty lies within the different types and finding one that works. Definitely not a way to go for someone learning to hone, newbies should rely on tested and well-known solutions.

 

I think you should try to see what the end result would be. In my experience, if I am counting laps, I double and then some the number of laps from the 4k to the 8k. This assures me that I am completely removing the scratches made by the 4k. I then go to my 12k and repeat the same by doubling the number of laps I did on the 8k. Once I became proficient and got a feel for how each blade reacts on the stones. I just did it by feel and still do it this way. I can tell by shaving hairs off my forearms if the edge is smooth enough to take the blade to the strop and shave.

Raf

 

I can only second that, Raf, exactly what I do, too (besides looking at the edte through my microscope when I think I'm done) :happy088

 

Well, maybe it's my face and beard type, but I can shave straight off the Norton 8K and in fact did for more than 18 months before my terrible, irreversible HAD started to develop (lately I've been talking to So, and the prognosis is not good....:sick007)

Actually, I'd guestimate that 80-90% of my shaving razors still have a Norton 8K edge, although that's mainly because I'm lazy and couldn't be bothered rehoning that many razors.

So it is possible (for some, maybe not all) to shave off 3 microns. Having said that, there is a noticeable difference in the edges on my razors that have been honed with higher grit stones - enough of a difference to keep the HAD humming...

James.

 

Well, basically it's all YMMV - differend beard types, different types of steel etc. Personally I can't shave off ANY hone, I have to use chromium oxide. I have very fine beard hair and need the sharpest of razors or the hairs ecape the blade.

And, yeah, I know about HAD, James, I feel with you. I had to order a Nakayama from O_S yesterday and I didn't get the one for 200 USD :shocked029.... :whacky098 :shocked031
Dang HAD :scared001 :sad027

 

Very true - YMMV should be a mandatory disclaimer. I've got a fairly tough and coarse beard that grows like weeds in fertiliser...

Yes I saw that! Looks nice, very nice. I don't think you'll be disappointed in that investment.

James.

 

I hope so

What kinda hone are you looking to get from So? Also a Nakayama?

 

I don't know yet - So likes to exchange emails with questions etc to get a feel for what you are after and also what your skill level is (and price range too). The harder the stone, the more difficult it is to use apparently. And I want to let him choose what he considers best, as I really have no idea.

At the moment we are talking about Maruka Nakayama Asagi stones from his personal stock - they are very fine and very hard (and fairly expensive), but I'm lucky as he doesn't charge Aussies for the exchange from Yen to AUD, and postage is cheaper too.

I'm learning a lot, which is good. He is truly a font of knowledge on this stuff. So, it may take a little time to determine what's right for me, but when it comes to this I'm prepared to be very patient!

When I get something I'll be sure to post pics and a review.

James.

 

This is some good stuff - I picked up a King 1000 and re-established the bevel and then to 4000/8000. I think I am making progress. It would be a terrible shame to get it perfect on the first try ! I don't have a 12000 / finishing hone but alas something else to purchase !!!!!

 

two words

stickie please...

Or I guess I could book mark this thread

This is great guys!

Sean

 

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of opportunities to fail! :happy102

 

It has been a pattern !

 

Please don't misunderstand. I fully agree with you here.

 

This is a great YMMV example. You need chromium oxide and I seem to dull my blade on it. I won't use it anymore (at least not for a while). As I said before, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong with it but I've never gotten a good edge off of chrome ox and others do.

As they say, "To each, his hone"

 

Ouch!