The Toggle Thread (TTT)

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by Sparrow, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    Stunning photos, great in-depth info.
    Bumped for more!
    :signs097:
     
  2. Taipan

    Taipan Well-Known Member

    Here are mine. All mint and, as far as I can tell, not replated.

    Toggle = all matt dial ring; Executive (Gold Fat Boy) = matt where gripped but shiny around the numbers; 1961 and 1964 Aristocrats (gold Slim) = shiny, shiny, shiny.

    2017AdjGold3.jpg
     
  3. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Well dang...then, I'll correct my statement. I have no clue what the Executive and the Aristocrat are supposed to be....but the Toggle? The Toggle is supposed to be matte, according to Chris at RazorPlate. There. My conscious is clean. :)
     
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  4. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Aw heck, here are mine. I'm going to agree with your assessment. In the sun, the FB barrel is different. It may just be a slightly different color? The Slim does look more uniform in color and sheen.

    The Toggle is distinct to me, once I knew it was there.

    Mine eyes are old. They need help, but I resist :) 1,000 word rule applies.


    Edit...whoa. I messed that up. LOOT gave you buggers complete access to the library. If anyone got in there before LOOT could shut'er down...You're Welcome. And download the 365deg panorama from atop Mt. Mitchell, NC. It's simply stunning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
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  5. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Here are mine. I tried to get the full size image uploaded but failed. I think there is a slight difference in the Slim barrel/body zoomed way in...but it's slight.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Taipan

    Taipan Well-Known Member

    Could they have been made in different factories for this side of the pond?
     
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  7. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    I've not delved into the manufacturing facilities, much less trying to pinpoint which model ran in each plant. Anything is possible I suppose. I've not had quite that much spare time. :)
     
  8. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Over the past few days I've been chatting with Chris Evatt at Razorplate. He happened into this thread and answered your question. Here it is, straight from the source.

    Chris:
    I noticed a Toggle thread on TSD and some discussion about the matte finish on the adjustment dial. Something that you and I had discussed. A Toggle that I had worked on was pictured - and its adjustment dial was more shiny than it was matte.

    Just in case you want to know, there is a simple reason for that. Many times, a Toggle will have some brass etching or micro-pitting on the adjustment dial. One can't achieve a satisfactory plating finish by plating over damaged brass. In that case, the brass HAS to be resurfaced, or it would be like putting paint over an un-prepped, granular finish on a car. NOT acceptable. Unfortunately, when that type of damage has to be corrected before being able to plate the item, the original surface finish (that Gillette had plated over) is no longer intact. The only way to get that type of brass surface finish would be via media blasting, That entails too much of a risk of reducing the raised areas on the adjustment dial and creating a whole other issue. So.....in this sort of situation, the damaged brass must be resurfaced and the plating will tend to end up a bit more shiny than original. If there is no significant pre-existing damage to the brass of the adjustment dial, the end result after a replate will look very close to the original matte plating finish.
     
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  9. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    So, the past few days have been kinda cool. I finally got in touch with Captain Murphy. He has agreed to work on both of my toggles. A D1 gold variety and an F4 Chrome Toggle. The interesting thing is, this will be the 1st Nickle toggle CAP has disassembled the head of. The only other specimen he saw was mint condition.

    Not only that...but Chris Evatt has promised these will be the last 2 toggles he works on. How is that for some serious 2nd-kind-of-cool?

    Not only do I get to break CAP's cherry on the nickle...I get the last 2 out of RazorPlate's stables!

    The process for both will be...CAP disassembles both razors. Send parts requiring coating to RazorPlate for new skins. Then those parts get send back to CAP for assembly and tuning. When I get done, I'll have 2 better than new Toggles that I can shave with until my hands are too weak to hold them. And I will honor those 2 pieces of American artwork by running them hard and taking good care of them.

    Someone asked for CAPS contact info and pricing. I asked and here it is for you. His e-mail is vintagerazorrepair@gmail.com

    For a Gillette fatboy/slim/or super adjustable, the cost is $25 plus the incurred shipping costs.

    The process involves:

    -Complete disassembly & thorough cleaning of all parts.
    -Mechanical inspection/adjustment/repair (as needed).
    -Polishing of all plated parts (if the condition is acceptable to polish).
    -Repainting of all accents in factory colors (custom colors can be done upon request).
    -Lubrication, reassembly, & mechanical function test.
    -Blade gap alignment verification on all settings.
    -Re-coating of black enamel on super adjustable handles upon request (if condition is acceptable to re-coat i.e. pitting/corrosion free).

    *For items that need to be cleaned and serviced prior to a replate, I drop the price down to $20 as I do not have to polish any parts and simply perform the cleaning, servicing, and forwarding to Chris (or vendor of choice).
     
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  10. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Not to turn OP's thread into my personal Toggle diary....but, my D1 Gold and F4 Nickle Toggle will be safely in CAPs capable hands. It occurred to me that I'd like to have nice original boxes for those 2. So, I picked up a nice box with this F4 Gold Toggle inside. The box is great and the razor was very, very lightly used, the finish is pretty outstanding given the fact that whoever used and stored it did the ultimate unthinkable....yep, stored it lightly dirty (soapy) with a blade in it, a black colored Gillette Super Blue. The horrors. It did clean up nice tho with some Scrubbing Bubbles and a toothbrush.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    ...you brought much information to the thread. Thanks for teaching me a few things!
     
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  12. Old School

    Old School *$&%@#~

    Supporting Vendor
    I too hope to join this thread one day...anyone holding multiples that one day decides to part with one for betterment of the chapter (more TSD members w/Toggles) let me know! :)
     
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  13. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    Toggles are a curiosity for their rarity. I'd like to find one,too. As I understand they were experimental through the entire production. The final result became model #195. Has anyone compared the shave quality of a Toggle VS a Fat Boy?
     
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  14. mrchick

    mrchick Odd, Terrible Avatar

    Yes, I don't find a noticeable difference in the shave.
     
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  15. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    My D1 Toggle is more aggressive and yields a superior shave, in my den. I attribute it to weight. The heavier the better.

    I can't wait to report on the F4 Chrome.

    It will be interesting to try my Rhodium FatBoy. Chris tells me be cause Rhodium is smoother than nickle, you may tell a difference.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     
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  16. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    After cleaning up my F4, I snapped a couple of pictures. Surprisingly, I only have 2 somewhat visible pits. I can't see them with my naked eye but they jump out in a photo. So, I asked my new friends if there was any way to treat the spots to prevent further base material degradation. The answer is quoted for those of you who want to know.

    Verdigris is defined as a bright bluish-green encrustation or patina formed on copper or brass by atmospheric oxidation, consisting of basic copper carbonate.

    "Yes. You can treat those spots to remove the green, BUT there will be two pits where you see the verdigris. The good thing is, that once the green is gone, they may likely be hard to even notice.

    Here is what you do. Use a Q-tip - dip it in vinegar - gently wipe the green in a small, circular pattern. Keep it as close to the spot as possible, so that you do not remove gold plating around the spot. Take another Q-Tip - spray it with WD40 - do the same thing as you did with the other Q-Tip. Wash the entire razor, thoroughly, in Dawn dishwashing liquid (or similar) to ensure removal of all WD40 film. Rinse thoroughly. Dry the area with a soft, fluffy towel. Then......

    Put a tiny dab of clear fingernail polish over each spot. Let it dry. You are good to go! This is essentially putting a spot of lacquer over the exposed brass."

    Now...after reading that, you may wonder..."If you can't see the green without magnification, using a Q-tip is like taking a baseball bat to a fly, no?" Me too.

    Also, the blade is my current EDC pocket knife. It's a Cold Steel XL Voyager. It's 5.5" with the Tanto point. Gotta have a Tanto point.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. spot705

    spot705 Active Member

    I have just acquired my first toggle last weekend. Gold D1 with case. Immaculate condition.
    The first few times I flipped the toggle it didn't immediately "pop" open. I had to push up to open the doors.
    (A few more tries and now it opens as it should.)

    My question is this: Would storing this razor open keep the spring relaxed? Or am I over thinking it?

    I am sure many of these have been stored closed for decades with no ill effects.
     
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  18. Luteplayers

    Luteplayers Well-Known Member

    My experience with gun magazine springs, keeping them compressed or not has no effect. It is the exercising of the spring that wears it out. I suspect it would be a long time. More likely just needs to be cleaned.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  19. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    Agree but I've always been told to store magazines either completely full...or completely empty. In between is no bueno.

    My magazines are always full.
     
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  20. LOOT

    LOOT Well-Known Member

    CAP has disassembled my Fatboy and the D1 Toggle. He sent pictures of the parts. Both were in great shape, I thought. The amount of crud inside the shaft was surprising to say the least. Especially the Toggle. It's design just asks for crud to build under the base plate. So...the logical question was, "How to properly maintain a razor to minimize or eliminate the accumulation of crud under the head and especially in the shaft.

    The answer is:
    1) When shaving, shallowly dip the head in your water to remove shaving soap and whiskers. Do not dip the razor as deep as the adjustment dial.

    2) After a shave, remove the blade and give the razor a quick clean with mild dish-washing liquid (Dawn or similar) - Rinse under fresh, running water - Shake the razor, with the head down, to "sling" water out of it.

    3) Completely dry the razor with a fluffy towel - Pat dry your blade and put in a safe place

    4) Leave doors OPEN and stand the razor on its head. The open doors will act like "kickstands". The top surface of the doors will not hit the counter, so you are not going to scratch them doing this. Gravity will pull the water/moisture downward, out of the head, so that it does not accumulate in the adjustment mechanism or inner barrel of the razor.


    I gotta say again, these 2 guys have gone out of their way to be accommodating of questions. They been very generous with their expertise. They are gems to the community.

    I've tried to get photos attached but they are too large and I'm too lazy to re-size now. If you care to see them...PM me. I'm glad to share.

    The Chrome Toggle is last. CAP says he is documenting the dis-assembly. Hopefully, it will be uploaded to YouTube eventually. IT should be interesting,. CAP has not done one and there are no patent drawings for the Chrome. No one seems to know exactly how the head is constructed....but we shall see.
     
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