Think I may have figured out my irritation and inflammation problem ... shaving too frequently

Discussion in 'Shave School' started by SlaveShaver, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    I think shaving too frequently is what is causing me to have irritation and not allow my inflammation to adequately heal.

    The reason I think this is as because I went for three weeks without shaving to allow my skin to heal a bit, and then had a completely irritation free shave and my inflammation did not seem to get worse (Had a 10-long hot shower; cleaned facial hairs with some mudsoap, applied some jojoba oil, lathered up, then using an Edwin Jagger DE86 razor with a new Derby blade I shaved with no pressure, just one pass WTG). I was also quite surprised at how much easier the shave was and how close it was; almost as if I had done some XTG passes as well. One week later, I had another shave, doing everything exactly the same (I even timed the shower to make sure I was under the hot water for the exact same amount of time). Again, no irritation, but not as close a shave because I was not as fussed this time around.

    Then, two days later, because I did not have a particularly close shave two days prior, I shaved again, did everything exactly the same, and noticed quite a bit of irritation, and the inflammation seemed to look worse in the days after shaving. I did everything exactly the same in each shave. The only difference between the shaves was the amount of time that had passed since the previous shave.

    What do other people think of this theory? Also, if they agree that it is the amount of time going between shaves that is the determining factor, what do they think the reason is that the time passing is important? And how can this process be sped up so I can shave at shorter intervals?

    I was reading this article: (http://www.dermalinstitute.com/au/l...ts_Skin_A_Scientific_Approach_to_Shaving.html), and under the inflammation section it says that shaving over an already sensitised or irritated area can cause inflammation. I am aware that shaving removes the top layer of skin. Is it possible that this top layer is important for adequately protecting the skin from inflammation? Is it possible that the reason why two days is not long enough to go between shaves is because this top layer of skin has not regenerated in this time to protect against the inflammation? Or is there something else that needs to happen between shaves (other than my prep) so that the skin can be ready for a shave without being vulnerable to inflammation?
     
    Terry Williams likes this.
  2. RetLEO-07

    RetLEO-07 likes his penguin deep fried, with pink sparkles

    I guess I must have rhino hide skin. I shave six days a week, 2.5 passes at a time. No irritation, bumps, clumps, whatever. Sorry to hear you're having problems. It can be discouraging. Hang in there, you'll figure it out.
     
  3. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    Yes, I was thinking to wait until the irritation has gone away, possibly after 1 to 2 weeks, then shave, which should be irritation-free. Then I will wait four days until my next shave. Then, if that's OK, try 3. In other words, I want to see what the lowest number of days is that I can go between shaves without getting irritation and inflammation.
     
  4. Terry Williams

    Terry Williams Well-Known Member

    You could very well be right, but check your technique. Most of my irritation and rashiness has come from blade angle and pressure; and soap ingredients that don't agree with my skin. I mostly shave everyday. Sometimes I don't shave on the weekend, but that is actually rare (I've come to like this pastime too much :)). My first razor was a Maggard V3; pretty standard razor head. I got a Muhle R89 head a short while after. They are nearly identical. I also found some vintage razors and started rotating those in to figure out which was "best." I struggled early in my learning, but it was mostly self inflicted. I was using different soaps within the same shaving session; I would switch soaps for each pass (usually 2). I had so many samples that I was just trying to find the right one. I would rotate in a different razor or blade each day. Not a great idea when you are learning. Something in some of the soaps burned the crap out of my face (I later determined that it was menthol) and my bad technique just exacerbated the situation. So, I stopped for about a week and let my face heal. Afterward, the awesome members here pointed me to the 30-Day Rule/Focus. So, I stopped messing around and started working on my technique. I used a Van Der Hagen unscented soap; a well broken-in boar brush; Personna Lab Blue blades (new one each day) and my Muhle R89 for 30 days. I did the same thing everyday. Coffee, then shower, pre-shave oil, lather, 1 pass WTG, lather, 2nd pass WTG, rinse, alum, balm, aftershave. By the time the 30 days were up, I was shaving everyday without irritation or burning. After that first 30-Day Rule, I started a 30-Day focus each month, by changing out just one thing (soap, brush, blades, razor). After about 4 or 5 months, I new what supplies were causing problems for me; which hardware seemed to work the best; and I had a technique that I could do by rote. I even came to be able to shave ATG without irritation. In all of that, I discovered that menthol (as mentioned before) was an invitation to a painful morning. I also, discovered that my Muhle and Maggard razor heads were not as comfortable as others. They maybe are not really good razors for beginners, but I leave that as an academic exercise. Turns out that I prefer the Gillette Tech, Feather As-D2, and the Rockwell 6S to nearly every other razor that I own. I still rotate in the others on occasion (must be the insanity rule; expecting different results from the same thing), but nothing has changed for me with regard to how the other razors feel. I get back to Feather/Tech/Rockwell and I enjoy my shave once again. I change up soaps and use different brushes occasionally and I now have favorites. I have to say that technique trumps nearly everything else, though. Get your technique down pat and see where you end up. You might discover that you need more time between shaves or you might discover that something you are using is causing you grief.

    It sounds like your prep is good. I shower first, too, and use Dove Men's Care Face Wash in the shower. I use a pre-shave oil and I use soaps that are known to be for sensitive skin; or ones that I know I can use without pain. Keep it going. Take time between if you feel you need it. But, don't give up. It took me a good 6 months to figure everything out. You will find out what works for you.
     
    SlaveShaver likes this.
  5. gwsmallwood

    gwsmallwood Well-Known Member

    My shaves definitely go better after 48 to 72 hours, but a full week seems a bit extreme. Only way to know for sure is to test the theory. Settle yourself in for a long-term experiment. Or just grow a beard...
     
  6. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    It's funny that you mention blade angle and technique, Terry, because I've just discovered that I may have been using improper blade angle actually this whole time as a result of a misunderstanding. I've been convinced that I have been using the correct angle because when people said that it should be around 30 degrees, I thought they meant of the handle to the face, so I've been using the razor almost vertically. And "Riding the cap" made absolutely zero sense to me because I couldn't understand how you could hold the razor at right angles to the face, and only bring it down slightly and have something similar to a 30 degree angle of the handle to the face.

    Now I understand that they meant the angle of the blade, not the handle. So I will try this next time I shave.

    However, I was using this improper angle for the first shave when I had not shaved for a few weeks, and I had no irritation. Although, it could be that using improper blade angle means that the shave is too aggressive, which requires more recovery time than usual, which would explain why two days is not enough. Perhaps using an improper blade angle can sensitise the skin more than usual and make it vulnerable for the subsequent shave? And so perhaps if I use proper blade angle, this extended recovery process won't be needed. It would come as a massive relief if improper blade angle is the sole cause of my problems because that would mean I don't have to faff around endlessly with minor details that are driving me insane.
     
  7. Norcalnewb

    Norcalnewb Magnanimous Moos

    I would still question how consistent you are with your shaving technique. You said everything exactly the same, but was you angle exactly the same each time? In my experience, the angle of attack has a bigger effect on irritation than anything else. Focus on getting good technique, like @Terry Williams mentioned above, and you can more easily identify what is causing your irritation. Without truly knowing you are shaving with exactly the same technique every time, there are too many variables to really identify problems.
     
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  8. Norcalnewb

    Norcalnewb Magnanimous Moos

    You really just answered your own question. I would tell you now that your angle of attack is causing your more problems than anything else. Get your technique solid, then experiment with other areas. Read the riding the cap thread for more information and join us on the 30DC thread.
     
    Terry Williams likes this.
  9. Terry Williams

    Terry Williams Well-Known Member

    The 30-Day Rule fixed all my issues with technique and I am able to shave without any pain in about 10-15 mins from first lather to last rinse. I could probably go faster, but I'm not generally in a hurry. We all handle this activity differently and, for me, I found that I was, like you, not holding the razor correctly. It made the most difference in my shave. It takes practice. A lot of practice. But, once you find the angle and reduce pressure, you'll find that the blade is actually much more efficient. I think one of my problems was that the poor angle might have caused the bar on the head to push down my beard and then let the razor just scrape my skin without actually cutting the hair. After one pass, I would press harder to try to get the razor to cut hair, but all this did was scrape more skin. Once I figured out that there is a sweet spot angle to pretty much every razor and that you don't need to apply _ANY_ pressure, I noticed that the blade was just slicing through the stubble. It still takes my at least 2 passes to get a DFS (damn fine shave), but I can do that now with pretty much any razor, include shaving against the grain (which I would never recommend until you really understand you technique).

    Equipment makes some difference and your technique may be a little different with each, but once you get your technique down with one razor, then it is easier to adjust to different equipment.
     
    Norcalnewb, RetLEO-07 and SlaveShaver like this.
  10. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    I really hope you're correct. It would save me a lot of stress if this is what's causing the problems because it has a very simple solution. And it would be really nice to shave every day or every other day again.

    - Yes, this will actually make sense to me now, now that I don't misunderstand what riding the cap actually is.
    -
     
    Norcalnewb likes this.
  11. SlaveShaver

    SlaveShaver Member

    That sounds like you were holding the razor too vertically as well, like me.
    So you think even if you had a dull razor, you still wouldn't have any issues? The reason I ask is because I was worrying that inconsistency in the sharpness of the Derby blades (i.e., if perhaps some in a pack were sharp and some were dull) might also be causing issues as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
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  12. Terry Williams

    Terry Williams Well-Known Member

    I have definitely had dull or unsharp blades in my razor. It will definitely affect your shave. I've gotten the point now where I will know after the first pass by back brushing my face if the blade isn't cutting. I change it out immediately if that happens. Because my technique is consistent now, I can also tell if the blade is harsh. I find Derby to be that way, but it may be different for you. There are lots of great razor blades. For now stick with what you have, but went you feel that you can shave without issues, then get a sample pack and try some others. You will find that they can provide a very different experience. Also, I would suggest that while you are getting used to shaving with a DE razor, that you change the blade every shave. There are lots of folks who try to get many miles out of their razor blades, but it is just not worth it when you are learning. I used a new blade every shave with the 30 Day Rule. After a few weeks, I could tell pretty quickly if I had a bad blade. I find that I can get, at most, 2 - 3 comfortable shaves out of most any blade, but they are so inexpensive that I just change it out if I think it isn't performing. Even after one shave. I really don't let blades go past about 4 shaves. New blades are just awesome. So, why keep trying to milk more time out of an old one? For some it is a right of passage, but not for me.
     
    clint64 likes this.
  13. RetLEO-07

    RetLEO-07 likes his penguin deep fried, with pink sparkles

    :signs011: Knowledge!!
     
    clint64 likes this.
  14. Bama Samurai

    Bama Samurai with Laser-like Focus

    Good technique allows for daily shaves. Your irritation is clearly a result of over prepping and bad angles and too much pressure. When I started, I believed everything you wrote. Then, I learned how to shave, and not just scrape my face with a razor. You can too. Techniques are the answer
     

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