Some great pricing moves by Gillette

Discussion in 'Cartridge Razors' started by engrsaks, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    Can I believe that they remove their attention from old products to focus on newer ones? Absolutely. Can I believe that they'll move their contracting to lower cost, lower quality producers? Absolutely. Do I think they do it deliberately? Absolutely. Do I think it's a conspiracy? Not in the sense that the word is usually utilized. They _want_ people to move to their new products, which they're using to compete with their old products and other brands.

    Do _I_ have personal experience with it? No. I haven't used cartridges for a long time, and never did long enough to deal with the new product replacing old situation. The link? You said that companies wouldn't give up profit like that. Gillette did exactly that when they abandoned producing razors and blades in the 80's. They weren't losing money on it, yet they dropped the production. That points out that they _will_ do something illogical to us.
     
  2. Bama Samurai

    Bama Samurai with Laser-like Focus

    The Russians bought many of the Gillette machine tools when Gillette got out.
     
  3. Jerry-built Hustler

    Jerry-built Hustler Well-Known Member

    OK, I'm going to try this one more time, then I'm giving up.

    The accusation against Gillette that I am talking about is that they intentionally re-engineer older-model cartridges to make them deliver worse shaves than those models did prior to that re-engineering, whether it's through degraded blades, an altering of the blade angle, head geometry, or the like. The concept is that when Gillette introduces a new flagship model (say, the Fusion) to supersede a previous flagship model (say, the Mach3 Turbo), Gillette deliberately degrades the design of the older flagship so that consumers will actually think the new flagship delivers a better shave, when in fact the older flagship is delivering a worse one. The hope is that consumers will abandon the old model and embrace the new one. The degraded performance is not the result of a facility move, a shift in attention, cost-cutting, or the like. It's a deliberate attempt to dupe consumers through nefarious means.

    THAT'S the theory I'm saying is "crackpot." Discontinuation of blades has nothing to do with it. For some reason you seized on one thing I said, took it out of context, and have been arguing ever since against a point I never made. I'm not really sure where else there is to go with this discussion. If you want to address the actual theory, go ahead, but I've made my point ad nauseum.
     
  4. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    This is the section that has been refuted. Not the crack pot theory, but the theory that 'if a product sells well, it's in Gillette's interest to continue to make it'. This is obviously a fallacy. They are also obviously insane enough to try to sabotage their own sales to turn people to newer products.

    So, that's where your link is, and yes, both @Bama Samurai and I are responding directly to your claims.
     
  5. Jerry-built Hustler

    Jerry-built Hustler Well-Known Member

    Wow. You put a lot of effort into refuting a statement I made that wasn't central to my point. That's called missing the forest for the trees. If you really enjoy thinking the Big Bad Gillette Monster is out to ruin your shaves, have at it. The good news is, Gillette couldn't care less, and makes its products available to those who want them, which includes me. Have a nice day.
     
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  6. Kilgore Trout

    Kilgore Trout The Smart Bunny

    I get my Trac II blades here along with others. I am not sure if they are the best price, but they seem fair to me and the quality has been consistently good.

    http://www.razorsdirect.com/trac2.html
     
  7. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    How do you know that the sales of DE blades were high enough to warrant production and the subsequent costs in the developed world rather than from being manufactured in Brazil? If I was an Gillette Exec my committment to resources and factory space would have been on the Sensor.
     
  8. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but how do you know whether Gillette was or was not losing money on DE blades and DE handles?
     
  9. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    Do you mean PPI which Gillette is the majority shareholder? They would have had the plant machinery from Poland, Czech republic and Turkey.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  10. Bama Samurai

    Bama Samurai with Laser-like Focus

    St Petersburg is the city that comes to mind. GSB is there. What do you know, tell me more?
     
  11. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    Then explain the new and improved Mach3?
     
  12. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    BOSTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 18, 1996--The Gillette Company (NYSE:G) announced today that its Russian joint venture, Petersburg Products International (PPI), has acquired 100 percent of the blade and razor assets and trademarks of St. Petersburg-based Factory for Consumer Products (FCP), a leading blade manufacturer in Russia that makes primarily double-edge blades under the Sputnik brand name.

    FCP is an open joint stock company owned by Leninets, FCP employees and other investors. The price of the transaction was not disclosed.

    Since 1993, Gillette has manufactured blades and razors in St. Petersburg under the PPI joint venture and is currently the leader in the Former Soviet Union (FSU) market in value share. Gillette owns 65 percent of PPI and has management control; the remaining 35 percent is owned by Leninets, a leading Russian manufacturer.
     
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  13. Sabre

    Sabre Well-Known Member

    Gillette purchased Wizamet of Poland in 1992 and production moved to PPI. In 1996 Gillete bought Prago Union aka Astra of the Czech republic and moved production to PPI. Gillette bought Permatik of Turkey, and moved production to...
     
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  14. gorgo2

    gorgo2 geezerhood

    Speaking mainly of carts for a moment...I don't know about anyone else but I have trouble accepting the proposition that after 50 years of cartridge development, each new product released by Gillette has invariably shaved better than any of the preceding ones solely because newest = the best yet, and that this is what made prior carts seem to shave not so good after all. Sorry, it just don't add up.

    There's very little room for true revolutionary development in this field -- all their doing is tweaking tech that's now a half century old. So, were the premise true that each iteration of cartridge shaved better that every cart that came before it, there SHOULD be (a) almost no one with the slightest problem with the Fusion, and (b) almost no one who can tolerate the (presumably, by that logic) relatively horrid shave of vintage Trac II.

    IOW, by that logic carts should have magic carpeted all of us to an indisputable shaving Nirvana a few iterations ago, and Fusion should be perfect, or nearly so. But they haven't, and it isn't. And as most of you know, this is from someone who likes carts. A lot. I'd lay real money that there's more guys dissatisfied with the shave of the Fusion than guys who dislike the shave of original Trac II (assuming they've tried both). That shouldn't be true according to this thread, but I'll bet it is true just the same.

    I'll take a case of the Skeptic scented Barbasol in the black and white can, please.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  15. Jim99

    Jim99 Gold Water Shaver

    I agree with yo Gorgo. How much more can be wrung out of a cartridge blade using the existing technology? The fusion should be utter perfection with 50 years of manufacturing experience.

    Actually, I loved the shaves I got out of my fusion, but the price of the blades is what got me looking for options more than three years back.

    Once I stumbled upon the VDH, I found that my shaves were every bit as good as the fusion and for a fraction of the price. That was when I decided I would never go back.

    Back to an earlier point on Gillette, or any other company... It’s not enough to make a profit, but they have to maximize their profit margins. Making a penny a blade is not nearly as good as making $1 a blade. Corporate funds must be used to maximize profits.
     
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  16. Jim99

    Jim99 Gold Water Shaver

    I agree with yo Gorgo. How much more can be wrung out of a cartridge blade using the existing technology? The fusion should be utter perfection with 50 years of manufacturing experience.

    Actually, I loved the shaves I got out of my fusion, but the price of the blades is what got me looking for options more than three years back.

    Once I stumbled upon the VDH, I found that my shaves were every bit as good as the fusion and for a fraction of the price. That was when I decided I would never go back.

    Back to an earlier point on Gillette, or any other company... It’s not enough to make a profit, but they have to maximize their profit margins. Making a penny a blade is not nearly as good as making $1 a blade. Corporate funds must be used to maximize profits.
     
    gorgo2 likes this.
  17. John Ruschmeyer

    John Ruschmeyer Well-Known Member

    Disclaimer: Although I own one Fusion, I've never used it and have never used a cart with more than 3 blades.

    Personally, I tend to think that razor evolution is long past the point of diminishing returns; at least until we get something like a handheld laser razor. I suspect this is why so much cart-related development seemed to center on things like lube strips and vibrating handles.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that Gillette is probably doing fundamental research in areas such as materials science. I just think that any work is only applied forward (i.e., to the next generation of cart).
     
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  18. subvet

    subvet Well-Known Member

    So I have to ask, if 50 years of cart "developement" must have achieved the absolute, utmost, best cart possibe how do you all explain the constant "innovations" in DE and SE razors? Single blade razors have been around for more than 80 years, decades more than that if you count straights.
     
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  19. Bookworm

    Bookworm Well-Known Member

    Yes and no. That would be the case if you were talking about starting a new line of products. If you're using existing infrastructure, amortized equipment, and are making no new investments, then a penny a blade is a perfectly good _net profit_. That's why I believe that the cessation of blade production in the US was caused by a "Generation Xer" (god, I hate that term) that came straight out of college and convinced higher ups to stop the production.
     
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  20. gorgo2

    gorgo2 geezerhood

    Only by the logic raised several posts back, at least as far as I understood it.

    First of all, I haven't used a truly "new" (modern) DE razor beyond the Chinese Super Speed knockoff I bought at Big Lots a few months ago, which is the exact same design, just different materials. So I can't answer your question directly.

    But that very ignorance raises a counter-question: do knowledgeable users agree that the new DEs/SEs shave better than their vintage counterparts? Are they truly innovative with regard to shave quality? Are the new razors truly innovative, or just novel? Tough questions to answer, I know...how does one even quantify "better"? Point is, I don't know who could possibly answer your question, except for someone who has used a ton of both vintage AND these unique ("innovative") modern razors. Are they truly innovative...superior...in all respects? Are they just different and novel but shave, on average, about the same as an Old Type or flare tip? I dunno. But I do know that many of those guys are right here at TSD.

    Also, my disclaimer: I think the shave from the Fusion Proglide is the bee's knees and if price were not a consideration AND if I didn't like shaving with old razors, I'd likely use the Proglide regularly.
     
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