Hey, are jnats really worth the hype and expensive price that your going to pay for them? Do they put a better finished edge on a razor than other stones? What makes them so great?
I am in the absolute firm camp of a definite maybe . Better edge? Totally subjective, but you can get a nice edge with film or synthetics for less. I say possibly because I like the hunt and have found really nice stones on eBay (and researching the actual source so I felt confident that the stone was a razor finisher). I find it both challenging and rewarding to create a shaving edge by rubbing a natural stone with another stone, but I think this is an “acquired taste.” If it sounds interesting, I am sure there are people on here that can help you find what you are looking for, as there are some beautiful stones in the honing thread. To prove there are deals I acquired this one for about the speed limit. Most importantly, be comfortable with whatever choice you make and have fun! Tom
Prices have risen to astronomical levels on some jnats. Do high prices make them necessarily better? Not really— but in my experience with these stones, some jnats can yield a sublimely-smooth shaving edge that is difficult to match with other natural stones. Not all jnats are created equal so its best to seek knowledgeable advice before putting down $$$ for a jnat.
Kevin said it well. If you get the right stone, it can yield a very sharp yet very smooth and skin-friendly edge, whose combination of sharp and smooth are difficult to get otherwise. You can also go from a set bevel to finish in 2 stones, a nice fast midgrit like a suita or grit-rich kiita, then a finisher. Mostly I use synthetics to 8k the finish with a jnat. The problem is that jnats that are truly razor-finishing grade aren't as common as sellers would maybe like you to believe, so you may have to try several to get what you want, but reputable sellers will have a trial period. The good news is that a lot of factors that make some jnats extremely expensive (size, light color) are not needed in a razor hone. They're a lot of fun if you choose to give them a whirl, glad to help if you have questions. Cheers, Steve
"Synthetic Hones are a science, Natural Stones are a Romance, are you sure you want to start that affair" ~ gssixgun ca 2009 If and when you are totally satisfied with your edge off of the 8k -12k Hone so that it is boringly repeatable then it is time to explore Naturals and out of all the naturals the Jnats are possibly the most expensive and complicated...
Agreement with @gssixgun and @HolyRollah I don't have a ton of time on jnats, but have found there is just a "something" that a fine quality Jnat leaves on an edge that is hard to attain solely on synthetic. Then again, Glen finished a razor of mine on a coticule and it's was smooth as silk as well so perhaps it's just something about natural stones. It is amazing the cost of jnats though. As such, I think I'll be a synthetic guy for a long time.
Expensive? I have a nice ozuko 5+, a tomonagura, yae botan, botan, tenyou, mejiro and koma nagura. I can do small geometry work, set bevel and finish on the same honzan. If i compare this to shapton glass stones, i would need a 1k,4k, 8k, 10k and 16k and still fail to reproduce the edge on the jnat. But you can spend a lot more! Honing on a jnat is easy, it is a progression but on a forgiving hard, fine stone. I have yet to receive or hone a knive a synthetic that gives a shave as smootg as a natural stone. A coticule give a nice edge as well, bit they miss the.stamping sys. The jellow green esher, nice Charnley.forest,..
You can buy decent jnats for $70-100 easily enough. Alex and Max sell Shobu type 100 razor hones (type 100 is a size) for around $70 and Alex has sold thinner hard Okudo for $70-150. They'll last your life. The knife maker Takeda used to sell Nakayama koppa (bout) for around $90, I've had 3 and all were good razor stones. Cheers, Steve
Without a doubt I believe jnats are the best honing stones you can get. That said the quality can vary and they must be purchased from a reputable seller. They do not have to cost a mortgage payment, however based on size, stamps, colour ext they can be crass expensive. I have seen a few in the $35k range. I have a koppa sized Nakayama iromono whosh is about a 4+ in hardness. After bevel set I raise a slurry on it with a 1200 atoma. Roughly 40 strokes and the 1k scratches are gone. I’ll dilute it half way repeat and then do the same with just water. Then I do the same process with my Nakayama Tomae Mizu Asagi. It’s a 5+ hardness and incredibly fine. The resulting edge has a beautiful kasumi finish which is incredibly sharp but it’s sooooo smooth. My smaller koppa was about $200 however the Tomae is a $1200+ stone. Is it worth that value? For me it absolutely is, I have never had any stone produce anywhere near the same buttery smooth edge and it’s as simple pleasure to use. Once you own one you will understand why they are so loved and valued.
Hi guys so I am new to this thread but I intend to be more frequent. I need help! I have been doing the most research I can simply to understand Japanese Natural Stones. I currently hone with synthetics and I am looking to graduate. I get great edges, very sharp but also very aggressive. I have the Shapton progression of 1,4,8, and 16K. That said I like the capability the 16k gives. Just not the aggressive features. Obviously cost is an aspect. Maybe later in the future I will consider a $1000-2000 stone but right now I just don't think that is a feasible option. I am looking for several things #1 is a 5 in hardness level #2 I can't seem to get the grasp on the nagura slurry stones. 3 I still want to get up to the 16k mark in terms of my edge. 4 I would like to know who you guys seem to feel is a reputable dealer. I understand that this industry is very biased and everything is trail and error. If I can avoid making mistakes at its best I will attempt it at my best ability. I am currently in between choosing a Nakayama Kun and a Oozuku level 5. I am unsure if these 2 price differences are for Esthetic reasons. The Nakayama is beautiful although beauty doesn't mean the Oozuku can't perform just as well. Or does it? The price differences are 500CAD - 780 CAD No nagura stones included with either. So for me they are nearly 1000$ Start up either way. I hope this is not too much to read I am simply looking to ensure my customers get an awesome shaving expierence.
Hey, Naturalstones is a good startingplace in Europe. The mines you mention or both good mines, and indeed you also pay for the looks of the stone! There are a few other mines that give smooth but cheaper stones. A 5+ eastern thing is a good aim. Ask the seller for a matching tomonagura for the honzan. You can always change your tomo later if you think you found a better mach. The nagura. The nagura goes from coarse to fine, and in my opinion at least botan, tenjou and mejiro are a must on a jnat. To work on the bevel, yea botan is often a big help. I like using koma, but it is not a must. There are different qualities in the nagura, for botan and yea botan there is no need for expensive nagura, for the fine nagura it helps to get the more expesive, striped one, at least if you work clean You will forget about your 16 k, unless you need a speedy touch up!
Price goes up exponentially with size. Price goes up exponentially with 'pretty', ie, yellow color (kiita), karasu (crow), iromono (multicolor).... So there are many factors affecting price besides quality, and a good large knife hone will bring as much as a razor hone. If you were going to ask, ask for a deep strata Nakayama and a matched tomonagura (slurry stone) of similar hardness. If you're not picky, it's perfectly reasonable to get a great 140x80 razor hone for between $100 and $250 that will last you the rest of your life and give smooth edges. People have been posting good results from Fendrihan's and CKTGs Ozuku stones. Mikawa nagura are fun, but it's currently difficult to source them with much grit in them (except koma), so the current ones are usually slow. If you already have synths to 8k or better, you don't really need them. I do currently use a koma between 8k and my finisher+tomonagura. Don't worry about the numbers, they vary from dealer to dealer. If you ask for a hard, fine, deep strata Nakayama razor finisher or one from one of its neighboring mines, every dealer will know what you want. Reputable dealers include Alex Gilmore (Japan Stone), Takeshi Aoki (AFramesTokyo), Stefan (mainaman) over at SRP, and occasionally I'll sell one from the collection. Tosho Knife Arts in Canada also has a good rep but I've never personally bought anything from them (but friends have). Cheers, Steve
Have you had a good experience on this site. As I find he does not respond to emails. It has been almost a week and yesterday I requested info on my order no response either. Is there anything I should know? Site in question is Japanesenaturalstones.com
The Japanese Whetstones fellow is named Garret and I've assumed the site was no longer active - haven't heard from him in a long time but he used to post on SRP a bit. thejapanstone.com is Alex Gilmore. Alex has literally tons of stone that isn't listed so you should give him an email. Cheers, Steve
Yes, JNATs can have very different feels and grits, as do coticules. I have one that I got years ago for cheap, but only use it for finishing sometimes. I never got the hang of using the different slurry stones.
I'm not familiar with coticules but I do bevel set on 1k once this is done I move straight to my Ozuku Asagi. I use Botan first slurry tenyjou and followed by Mejiro. My edges have dramatically improved. I then follow this up with tomo and finished on running water. My edges come out so creamy that it is just an absolute pleasure to shave with. I'm no expert at any of this but I have no doubt in my mind that if you made the switch your edges would be even better than your current state.
