Tuggy straights... Getting discouraged

When I started wetshaving years ago I started with Parker half DE shavettes and have since acquired several more shavettes. I love straights. especially my AC SS (might get the new AC SR, too). I've been wetshaving for about 9 years now and have owned and used many shavettes in that time. I can get a great shave with any of them and an very confident in my technique, beard prep and lather creation. About 2 years ago I became active on the forums. I've seen much glorifying of "real" straights by so many people but never tried them due to financial reasons. Well I finally decided to take the plunge on a synthetic progression, WCS latigo strop and two razors honed to "shave ready" for me by the seller.
The razors arrive but feel dull. Bummer, so I watch a bunch of videos and try to hone them myself, but they still feel tuggy and painful. I can't seem to get any of the razors I bought to shave comfortably either. They just tug horribly. Granted I have very course wire like facial hair, but I'm talking downright painful passes. I know the obvious answer is it's just too dull, right? Send the razor out to an expert so I know what sharp is etc ... and that's exactly what I did. I sent a vintage Torrey and a vintage Solingen to a buddy on another forum who's been honing for years. One he finished on a jnat and the other a thuri....no dice. Both razors shaved, but very painfully. Just felt dull. My angle was low and pressure was light. Also he stropped them for me so I know I didn't roll an edge... discouraging.
Well, okay well maybe the razors are bad or my friends idea of sharp is quite different, right? I decide to try a different honemeister.
On top of the Torrey and Solingen I get a French Argus, Kings Crown extra hollow, GD p81 and a second vintage Solingen (don't recall manufacturer). So I now have German, French, American and Chinese razors all in good condition to remove the variable of just having a crap razor. This time I send them to Doc226 who, of course, needs no introduction as a honemeister and finished all 5 or 6 razors on a jnat. When they come back I immediately and excitedly take an extra long hot shower to prep my beard thoroughly. I lather up with a nice wet lather and try the first razor...painful and tuggy. I play with the angle, and focus on light pressure... Painful and tuggy. I grab the next razor...painful and tuggy. I grab the third razor but do 40ish laps on leather first and make a new, even wetter lather before resuming the shave which doesn't help. All the razors just feel dull despite treetopping arm hair fine. Mind you I'm confident in my technique and my lather making ability.

Does anybody else have this experience? After all the hype and money spent I'm just so disappointed. Now I have no illusions of any traditional straight ever being anywhere near as sharp as my shavettes, but surely they should at least not be painful? Has anybody else had this issue? Between the razors, hones, strops and honing fees I've spent almost $700 dollars and am so damn frustrated and discouraged that it's begun to compromised my enjoyment of the hobby. Has anybody else experienced this?

 

There was a young man in a straight razor group I started that joined who was given well-honed straight razors that I know were shave ready by several people. He never got the hang of shaving with any to them and blamed the straights or the honing.

I think you need to find someone to watch you and show you how to shave with a straight. I would think using the shavettes would have helped. I have trouble not cutting myself with them. If you are washing your skin with soapy warm water, and rinsed and applied lather and pulling your skin taut and used the right angle you will not get a tuggy shave. I remember telling a member to rinse and re-lather and that helped. Lather, skin taut, low angle, shave.

I remember seeing Lynn Abrams at a meetup in Asheville and he took a young man to a sink and mirror and instructed him on how to do it.

There used to be lots of good video on shaving with straights.

 

I'm not sure you can get a straight as sharp as a shavette but some fellows like the feel of the straight edge razor. I shaved with a AC Shavette with the guarded blade and they seem alright to my face feel. I rather shave with a safety razor because it easier for my self to reach a very close shave. It is a common observation from my reading lots of threads on the forums over the years that fellows find the edge not as keen on a straight than on a shavette and a lot of straight edge users only do 2 passes.
It could be the AC or DE blades are heat treated and have coatings to strengthen the cutting edge better!

 

I'm confident in my technique with shavettes. I've been doing it for nine years. Shavettes are supposed to be more demanding of technique and while I cut myself often early on while learning to stretch my skin and find/maintain blade angle, it has since become triviality. I doubt very much that shaving technique is a issue, but for the sake of putting a check in the box I'm willing to record a video for assessment. I'll record one tonight.

I was considering maybe trying a honemeister that finished with pasted strops and/or balsa or even a method edge as, thus far, all of my razors were finished on natural hones. What do you think?

 

Either hour not pulling you skin tight enough or your angle is wrong. I'm the opposite i can shave with a straight but will ginsu my face to shreds with a shavette. I started with a straight though. Although similar it seems there are still differences.

 

Thank you for your input. I know a traditional straight will not be as sharp as a DE or shavette. Though I wouldn't have thought they needed to be? I mean it literally feels just like shaving with my Weck that should have had the blade replaced 2 shaves ago. My first guess would be my stropping needing work, but the razors I sent out were stropped for me all three times. I don't know

 

My son has the same problem you do. He started with straights and didn't seem to have a problem. For some reason he decided to go to a shavette. When he went back to using a straight after several months, he experienced tugging and pulling. He's also got a tough wiry beard. I took one of his razors, started from zero and set the bevel on a coarse stone then worked up to a 16k stone to finish. I stropped it and got a great shave with it. I stropped it again and gave it back to him. Long story short, he gave me all his straights and now shaves with a double edge. Go figure! Some how shaving with the shavette had changed something in his beard (maybe just his perception). At any rate, he no longer shaves with a straight or a shavette.

 

You know the straights are properly honed, so the only other factors are prep and technique. You probably have the prep down for shavettes and the same applies for straights, the only factor left is technique.

 

Very interesting

 

Have you tried changing the angle any or are you using it exactly like your shavette? I seem to remember reading that some adjustment is necessary when going from one type to the other.
When your razors were honed it is too bad they didn't try giving you some 20k or loaded strop finished edges on some of them to try out.

 

No, I've found most shavettes want a slightly more steep angle. AC SS being an exception.

Learning to find and feel when you have the right angle for any particular razor is one of the first things I learned to do. You can feel when you have the right angle. I'm perfectly confident in my technique. I think you're on to something with a more refined edge. All my razors have been finished on a natural or a shapton pro 12k. It may well be that the edges need to be taken further. Worth a try. Any recommendations? Synthetic progression up to 16 or 20k then .3 and .1 crox? Something like that?

 

Okay, I recorded myself shaving. It's uploading now. I'll link here as soon as it's finished. I did my best to stay on front of the camera.

 

There we are. First 60 second or so is just lathering. I did my best to keep myself in front of the camera.

 

Pasted balsa en route

 

This is a shave test



Watch Listen and try it

Test the Torrey,,, If that doesn't work send me a PM and get the Torrey in my hands, that razor is most capable of holding a serious edge.. If you can't shave with my edge off a Shapton 30k on that Torrey sell the razors..


ps: It will take me less than 10 seconds to tell you if it is the edge or you once that Torrey is in my hands

 

Take Glen up on that offer!

 

@SterFry Definitely!!

 

Thank you sir, I will do that!

 

Excellent video, Glen.
And a generous offer, to boot!
Good on ya, Sir!

 

@SterFry , many sellers claim to sell "Shave Ready" razors, and claim to know how to hone a razor. If you know how to get a good shave, from a Shavette, then the traditional Straight Razor shave technique is a no-brainer.
Now, since you say you get tugging, I can bet, with certainty, it is your edge. Either it wasn't honed correctly, or your stropping techniques need work.
@gssixgun hones razors, for a living, and does a fine job with all types of straights.
One suggestion is, that when you receive the straight, back from @gssixgun , do not strop it, until after your first shave. After that, you will know,, about your stropping techniques. Also, watch a few videos, on how to properly strop a razor.