Beginners Magic: Disappearing Lather

Discussion in 'The Brush' started by TheBurgh, Apr 27, 2022.

  1. TheBurgh

    TheBurgh Active Member

    Brush novice here, so ignorance is a defensible shield! For now.

    To date, have tried inexpensive boar, horse and synthetic brushes. Soaked the boar and horse in shampoo water for a day, then cold water soaked for 2 days. The shaving results have been the same.

    Tried a pre-shave cream lather with a moist brush. What little was there, it disappeared. Then a cream lather on the face with a moist brush. It disappeared. Luckily, a slick-enough film was left on my facial surface to complete a DFS shave, but no lather.

    Pulled out an old can of Edge gel, hand-lathered it up to a thick cloud, then brushed. It disappeared.

    WTF (WHERE'S THE FOAM)?

    Help. Please.
     
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  2. brit

    brit in a box

    i have had a couple of lather hogs,badger and boar.i give them a good soak in hair conditioner ,then rinse out after half hour or so.no other break in procedures,just use.seemed to help,brushes now work normally.
     
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  3. John Beeman

    John Beeman Little chicken in hot water

    Two questions:

    What products were these?

    Is your water hard or soft?
     
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  4. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    John hits on two great questions.
    There are some shaving creams out there that just don't lather. Burt's Bees is an example.
    Personally, if it doesn't lather, I don't want it, I won't use it.

    Soft water can whip up a lather in no time. Hard water makes lathering, well, harder. Novices may think more water is needed, thus using too much and creating a very thin, runny mess that seems to disappear once applied to the face. Hard water will work, it just takes some experimenting to get the water to soap ratio right.
     
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  5. Chappy_Stan

    Chappy_Stan Well-Known Member

    I have found with badger brushes that I have to soak them for several minutes in warm water until they absorb as much water as they can otherwise they eat any lather I try to make with them. For me, I start soaking the badger brush like 15 minutes before I even start getting things ready for shaving.

    Did have one badger brush in which nothing worked including soaking in water for an hour, cleaning it with a clarifying shampoo, and even soaking/cleaning with 50/50 vinegar and water. I could soak this brush, mix up a lather with any other brush, and as soon as I put this brush in the later would disappear. I finally sacrificed it to the Shaving Gods and replaced it with another badger knot and works great now.
     
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  6. Ron R

    Ron R Well-Known Member

    A couple of things I can think of that will improve you lathering possibly. I bowl lather and some of my early problems making nice lather was leaving to much water in the brush and then trying to make my lather with less bubbles. If your getting bubbles it usually indicates to much water and you have to keep stirring alot to get that shiny cream texture.
    I found to just add a few drops of water by hand is all that is needed, thicker lather should be better than thin out lather that dissipates on a person.
    2nd important part for myself is adding enough soap or cream to the bowl at first to get the shave done with enough lather, if there is soap left in the bowl use on next shave to make some ubber lather possibly.
    If adding just the right amount of water is a problem just use a mister and that will dial things in a lot better until you are happy with lather quality, my mister with 2 pumps is about 12 droplets of water what I estimated when spraying in the palm of my hand. Misting lather is superior to other methods I have found but I do not always use it because I'm in a hurry or more careful adding water with the tips of my brush.
    Misted Haslinger soap.jpg
    Have some great shaves!
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  7. TheBurgh

    TheBurgh Active Member

    Proraso Preshave Cream (which I'm trying to finish, then abandon preshave stuffs), then Cremo Shave Cream (tube).

    Soft water.
     
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  8. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    "trying" to finish? Sounds like you don't like it. Why bother with it? Just toss it.
    Never tried the Cremo shave cream? Is it supposed to lather like KMF does?
     
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  9. TheBurgh

    TheBurgh Active Member

    1. As mentioned, I'm thrifty. Opposed to waste.
    2. Despite "dark side" canned goop, I am getting good shaves.
    3. For me and hundreds of others on shave forums, Creamo is a well-liked product/brand.

    Hope this helps explain.
     
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  10. John Beeman

    John Beeman Little chicken in hot water

    Pre shave cream will not lather like regular shave soaps or shave creams but it’s not supposed to.

    Cremo tube will not lather because it’s not designed to. Cremo tube is a brushless lather that you can apply with your hand. You can apply it with a brush but you can’t put some in a bowl and whip up lather.

    I’ve used Cremo tube to enhance cheap creams that I’ve bought but didn’t want to throw out even though they were worthless. I’ve added a shot of Cremo to them to bolster them enough to get a decent shave.

    Cremo makes a cream/soap that comes in a tub that’s supposed to lather but I didn’t have much luck with it.
     
  11. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    Note to self: Avoid Creamo cream - it doesn't lather.
     
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  12. VerbaVolant

    VerbaVolant Active Member

    As you probably already know, you are using wrong products.
    If you still need help, post a picture or a list with the shaving gear you have or intend to use, including software. Then we could offer you some suggestions.
    It has been said before that, technique is almost everything. Choosing proper products and using them accordingly is part of the technique.
    Meanwhile, get that boar brush ready. If I were you I would soak it in warm/hot water (as hot as you can bear when touching) for 10min or so. Dump the water and wash it thoroughly with dish soap (Dawn is my favorite, if you can find it where you live). Rinse well, squeeze water out, gently fan the brush across a dry towel, then hang to dry. Depending on the humidity in your bathroom it may take a couple of days. At 45%RH your brush should be good to use again in a couple of days. Repeat soaking for ten minutes, gently squeeze all water and hang to dry cycle until the tips start splitting. That's all. Using dish soap after the initial wash, for subsequent washes, is optional.
    An Omega boar brush would take about 10 wet/dry cycles before ready.
    I hope this helps.
     
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  13. Primotenore

    Primotenore missed opera tunity

    Article Team
    1) You need better shave soap
    2) Load more product onto the brush
    3) Dampen your brush, but don't start with a soaking wet brush
    4) Add less water---more slowly
     
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  14. TheBurgh

    TheBurgh Active Member

    I can't begin to thank you enough, VerbaVolant! The amount of often-conflicting information about the conditioning of boar/badger/mixed brushes is overwhelming. Your kind direction is now being implemented.

    Might you have directions for badger and boar/badger mix brushes.

    Yes, I'm aware of using wrong products (and wrongly used). I don't mind being wrong if it results in the next steps being more correct. You and others have graciously done so.
     
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  15. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    As for lathering, you'll get a ton of advice to do this or that.
    Keep in mind...

    Not everyone has the same material brush as you (all types take on water and product differently)
    Not everyone has the same size brush as you (affects the amount of water it will hold)
    Not everyone has the same product as you (all products lather differently, or not at all
    Not everyone has the same water as you (harder or softer)
    Not everyone has the same idea of what "swirling and pumping" is when it comes to taking brush to puck
    Not everyone has the same idea of "a little bit" when it comes to shaking out a brush full of water
    Not everyone has the same idea of "gently" when it comes to shaking out a brush full of water
    Not everyone has the same idea of "a few" when it comes to adding drops of water to a lather

    Hope that helps :innocent
    Try it all! You need to find what works for you.
     
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  16. VerbaVolant

    VerbaVolant Active Member

    Well..., there is more than one way to skin a cat. And I hope no one ends up traumatized after reading my comments. I mean younger generation.
    Boar bristles absorb water and swell when soaked. I always avoid soaking them for too long, let alone for days. Also, the knot (plug) is glued to the handle, glue that is an interface between the plug and the handle material. Although this is pure speculation on my side, as I never conducted an in-depth study on the brushes (now, that sounds funny for some reason), I imagine the same material science applies to them. All materials behave differently when exposed to extreme temperatures, and I believe thermal expansion and contraction principles apply here as well.
    Paladin Shaving site has a nice article about brush anatomy.
    I would recommend you try to establish a baseline, a reference point, then start exploring. It is a journey after all.
    I imagine you consider "good shaves" when using canned products due to lack of experience, as it would be expected of anyone.
    Good luck and enjoy the journey.

    As @swarden43 would say, try them all!
     
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