...the words none of us wants to hear when it comes to our favourite shaving accessory but sadly we have heard them quite a bit lately. I was going to post this in the Proraso Red thread but it seemed like a highjack to me so I thought I would open a new discussion. While I wish Joanna well in her cream cloning efforts, I have to ask something here and the intent is not to start a flame war just to posit a simple question. I can't help but wonder how much of the fascination with P Red (and Noxzema and Coates) is dependent more on the drive to simply have something that is no longer being produced and less on its efficacy as a shaving product. Sort of the mercantile variant of absence making the heart grow fonder. Please remember that this comes from someone who thinks the P Red and the Nox were--and still are--great creams (no experience with Coates) but when I sold the P Red and the Nox with regular availability they were steady but not superior performers. Indeed back about August of last year I received two tubes of Noxzema that while they looked rather rough due to mishandling of the parcel by the cretins at UPS they were intact and still sealed. Noxzema for those of you that don't know it seals their tubes. LaToja has started doing this and I expect all of the manufacturers will eventually follow suit. Anyway, I practically had to give them away before I could solicit any interest in the forums. I think I eventually sold them both for $20 shipped. It wasn't until after it became known these creams were no longer being produced that I started getting flooded with requests for multiple tube reservations. It's a pity that sort of activity wasn't being seen all along and these creams might still be in production. At the moment I have quite a list for the Noxzema (some of which happily I will be filling next week) and I still maintain a list for the P Red although at this late date I despair of ever filling that one however I do have one supplier who has told me he may have a lead on some so hope springs eternal I suppose. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
I think you're right -- a lot of the short-term hype and "run on the banks" of people chasing those last few tubs/tubes of the "discontinued" products has much more to do with a mental perception of "gotta get it while I can!" than any superior performance those products have. Your first-hand experience lends credence to that fact as well.
I think part of this is true; perceived scarcity increases perceived value. But at the same time, a steady performer has fans--and when something with fans is discontinued, they want to stock up. It's a concentration effect, I think. If I heard that MWF was going to be discontinued tomorrow, I'd damn sure buy as much as I humanly could today. Right now? I buy it when I need it, which isn't often. Of course, all the people who come LATER are just going off a mix of that perceived value, and the word of mouth. Personally, I am purposely avoiding products that are being/have been discontinued. I don't want to really like something that I know is so difficult to get.
I recently got involved in this because a member here asked for someone who lived in Italy to determine the status of Noxzema Lather Shave Cream (I ended up sending out 6 tubes that I found in a couple of local stores). I don't have an opinion about whether the end-of-life creams are being "hyped" or not but I just wanted to add that my "psychology" is different in that I purposely avoid trying those types of products (such as the Noxzema cream that I have never used) because I might like them and then won't be able to get them.
I agree that it is also a case of I got to try this before it is totally gone as well as it may be the holy grail of shaving, I was able to get some Proraso red a while back before it became as scarce as it is now and while I thought it was ok it wasn't nothing special to me, of course ymmv
I definately think it is true. When I hear that something is going to be hard to find, that for some reason makes me want to get it. Prime example, I heard that AV Ice Balm was discontinued. I don't like regular AV, and I never tried the Ice Balm, but I ordered 6.
I would just like to make a quick public acknowledgement.... I am the one who started all the fuss about the Noxzema, and this guy went out of his way to purchase a few tubes out of his own pocket. Upon leaning of the shipping costs, and thinking I had a fellow who was going to pick up some tubes personally during a business trip abroad, I backed out of the deal. Yesterday Dov (Chimensch) sent me a PM with a very generous offer in regards to the Noxzema lather shave, and I wish to publicly thank him for being such a stand up guy. It is because of people like him that I have enjoyed being a part of these wonderful forums. Dov, You The Man!! :happy096 Rolls
Mark, I agree with you. I remember the 2 tubes you had and they did sit and sit and sit. I admit my fascination came about because all the hype and I am extremely fortunate to have 1 on its way to me from an extremely generous member (Noxzema cream). The same things basically happens with bread and milk every time it snows here in the south. Stores literally sell out because of the scarcity issue knowing there is no need at all for? Maybe not the best analogy I was able to get a hold of Coates Lime? It sucked! well not worth all the hype at least. Another cream that is discontinuing is the TOMS peppermint They already axed the Calendula. I just think the companies have to make a conscious decision on what to keep and what not to. Proraso green probably was outselling the Red 20:1. Why hold onto a similiar product? They probably realized that producing for Omega and C.O. bigelow was much more profitable? I dont know? Everytime a product is going to be axed...there will be a huge demand for it. shave creams, cars, glassware, pipes, figurines, etc. Its part of being human and nothing will ever change it. The Irisch Moos is so hot right now b/c it is so difficult to obtain. Fortunately it is really good stuff! Whew....coffee is wearing off now.....
It's a good theory that may explain the run on discontinued products for some people. I just happen to think the red is the best cream I've ever tried.
I am very relieved to find that I am not the only one that does this, and for the exact same reason. Rob
Some of it is hype, some not. I agree with Shawn about the Coates - more hype than anything else. Others, though, may stem from long-time fans finding out their favorite product is being discontinued, so they buy up as much as they can, while they can. I have been caught up in this a couple of times - Coates Lime and Proraso Red. The Lime didn't live up to the hype, but I am finding that the Proraso Red really is a nice cream - Proraso for people who don't care for the Eucalyptus. Unfortunately, with my late entry into wetshaving, I only discovered it after it was pulled.
I've been fortunate, as a comparatively late entrant, not to have run into any "my life is now over" discontinuances. Now, I'm not thrilled about some of the creams no longer in production (I kinda liked Tom's Calendula); but, my core favorites aren't yet under attack. If MWF, Tabac, Harris, Cade (monitoring that possible threat) or Taylor's makes any untoward announcements, I'll be taking out a mid-range loan to stock up.
I would agree w/ this. Especially given your unique perspective as a vendor who watched the stuff languish on the shelves. I haven't had any product that I'm devoted to go under yet either. I have no interest in Noxema or Coates but did want to try the Red because I really like the green and the Omega. Plus I've been reading glowing reviews about it for six months. I'm with you on this.
Mark- you make an excellent point. I think there is a great amount of hype related to discontinued products. Regardless of Proraso's motivation for removing PR from their offerings, I truly believe this was a superior product in general. I've tried a bunch of creams from England, India, Italy and Germany and none seems to compare (I'm waiting for a tub of JM Fraser's so who knows). Perhaps it was too expensive and they couldn't sell it at the price they needed to turn a profit (this is Tom's of Main's story with their discontinued creams). Whatever the case, it's a classic with wonderful properties. It has a solid following of sad users who want it back. If JoAnna can come close to duplicating it, I'll buy it and I think others will too.
I resist. If it's going out of production, why bother falling in love with it? Now, if it's something I've tried, then I can rationally decide if I want to stock pile it and how much. If it were Tabac soap, I'd fill my garage...I mean...I'd BUILD a garage, then fill it!
I'm very well-stocked with Noxzema now, but I know that these tubes will not last forever. Once I finish them, I'll have to find a new favorite.
Awhile back there was a big uproar when US made Palmolive cream was discontinued. I'd just started using shave creams in tubes and was able to find 2. Two years later still have a tube and 3/4's. Also disappointed that C&E has discontinued its line of creams. But there's many more to try.
I tend to agree with this. To me, there is nothing worse than finding something I like (shaving or otherwise) and then not being able to get some.
Discontinued again :mad:I returned to using a shave brush and all that goes with it recently. About 30-35 years ago, I actually used Noxzema out the tube and loved it. For a long time I succumbed to the advertising and experimented with everything that came along. I have been using mug and brush again for about a year and a half. About five weeks ago I came all the way back with a double edge. In trolling the net, I discovered that the old reliables are/were being produced in Europe and India. I was ecstatic to find Noxzema again and am disappointed that it's out of production again. According to Superlather, it was produced by a company with a license from Proctor and Gamble. Let's hope someone picks it up again.:mad:
