Inspirational tales of honing success

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by jabberwock, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. jabberwock

    jabberwock Well-Known Member

    I am curious as to what hurdles and issues some of you folks have had to surmount in becoming proficient at honing straight razors. I figure that there are probably some fairly common issues out there and your stories of overcoming obstacles may just help me in my own struggles.

    I have been working on honing my own razors for a little while now and it has been a frustrating process. I have had a few professionally honed razors, so I know what a good edge feels and looks like. I have watched the videos and read the articles. I have no problems shaving with a straight razor, but honing is a different story.

    After eliminating several factors I have finally come to the point where it is obvious that my technique is lacking. I started my journey with lapping film and had some limited success. I have since moved on to stones and am now hitting a wall. I use a King Home Stone 1k, Taidea 3k/8k, and Naniwa Super Stone 12k followed by stropping on chromium oxide, iron oxide, linen, and then leather. My stones are lapped using Norton 400 wet/dry sand paper and a counter top. My edges look fine under a loupe and I can shave with the razors that I have honed, but it is far from a comfortable experience.

    One of the things that I have noticed is that my edges are far skinnier than those of the razors which have been professionally honed (my shiny bit is usually about half as wide as those razors which have been professionally honed). I don't know what the reason for this is (too much pressure, not enough pressure, odd angle, etc.), but it seems like whatever results in my edges being so thin may be a factor in my poor end results.

    I continue to work on this, but it is difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel. So, help me out here with some inspirational stories about overcoming your own honing difficulties. What were your hardships and how did you eventually overcome them?
     
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  2. oscar11

    oscar11 Well-Known Member

    This might be a slight oversimplification but it's all about setting the bevel. That's the foundation upon which your edge is built.
    Could you explain this better? Do you end up with a super aggressive blade? or tugging and pulling.
     
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  3. PatrickA51

    PatrickA51 Well-Known Member

    I look at honing a straight edge razor as if I were going to hone myBuck Knife, Same principal . If you can sharpen a Buck Knife or a K-Bar Knife you can put a good edge on a Straight Razor.
     
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  4. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    Here's little video of me honing a NOS Filarmonica, I always set my own bevel and get the razor to where I want it to be so I know what I have and then If I decide to keep the razor or sell on as this one was I can guarantee it shave ready, If you find the video to long you can always fast forward it.

     
  5. jabberwock

    jabberwock Well-Known Member

    I've never sharpened anything, so I have no real background in the concept other than what I have learned so far about how to hone a straight razor. If a knife went dull I had someone else sharpen it as this was not a frequent occurrence. Sending off a straight razor two to three times per year seemed like too much of an expense and loss in time when I could learn to do it myself ($20-$25 per razor per honing plus shipping and up to a week of turn around time OR a single investment in a set of stones and instant gratification).

    I know that setting the bevel is the most important part. I attempt to do the same things that I see in the videos, but I have a feeling that I am not doing something correctly because I am never able to pop hair at the 1k level (although I have read several threads in which folks claim that they are unable to do this and still end up with a fine edge).

    When I am "done" my razors will shave, but they do tug, especially when going atg or shaving my upper lip. This makes it pretty obvious that I have not honed properly. I'm certain that the majority of my problem comes at the first stage. My 1k hone is only 2" wide which makes it more difficult to ensure that I am doing everything uniformly across the edge. I'm sure that the stone is fine, but I think that I would benefit from a wider hone (I have a Naniwa Super Stone 1k coming). I know that when I had difficulty learning to strop on a 2" wide strop that upgrading to a 3" one made a world of difference. I'm the sort of person who couldn't draw a straight line with a ruler and a laser level, so eliminating the possibility of uneven honing by using a wider stone may help quite a lot.

    The above video was interesting and provided a slightly different take on the whole process. I liked the straightforward approach.

    I know that I need to do some general practice and that I am not yet where I need to be. Whenever I get frustrated with learning a new skill it is always helpful to see what difficulties others have faced when learning that same skill and how they have managed to overcome those obstacles. It's a 'you are not alone' approach to motivation and a template for how to improve and overcome certain difficulties.
     
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  6. Jamie Mahoney

    Jamie Mahoney Well-Known Member

    There really is no quick fix and nothing can replace many hours spent trying to get that razor to where you know it should be on the sharpness scale to drive you on, again I cannot state how important practice is whenever you are trying to master any skill, try and start with a few Ebay cheap razors full hollow If you can snag them and hone them if possible weekly once you are happy with the edge then bread knife them and start again you will learn more from your mistakes than your successes.

    Good luck.
     
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  7. HolyRollah

    HolyRollah BaconLord

    In my brief honing experience(s), I believe my technique is improving since I first started. I have done nearly a dozen razors several times. I started by honing some really cheap ebay razors that I purchased primarily for 'honing practice' razors. My first number of attempts were brutally bad—uneven edges, etc. I use a norton 4k/8k & a 12k finisher.
    By the time I got around to actually honing a razor I intended to actually use in my rotation, I had gained some confidence from all my practice razors. The razors I have honed (bevel set & hone) have turned out well enough so I get a comfortable shave with them. The 40x lupe reveals that my edges are not 'perfect' as a honemeister can get, but I'm far from being at that level of expertise or skill. But I still consider them to be 'shave ready' to my standards (i.e. comfortable to use).
     
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  8. Neolithium

    Neolithium I am Canadian, eh

    I used to have edges that were seemingly too brittle. What I started doing (And now do every single time) is tape the spine and it works for me. Do I have science to back anything fancy up? Nope. But I can set the bevel on the same razor without tape, and again later with tape - the taped result is better and more uniformly pops hairs across the length of the blade. The only thing I do while doing my bevel setting circles, is use:

    - 40 Circles Slight Pressure
    - 10 X Strokes
    - 40 Circles No Pressure
    - 10 X Strokes

    I start with some slurry with my Nagura and by the time I'm doing the final list of 10 x strokes I have clear water on the stone and it pops hair wonderfully. These numbers mean NOTHING by the way, they get adjusted based on the feel of the razor across the surface, some are less, others are more. I'll basically use the similar type count for the 1k on the 3k then the 8k stone and the only deviation I use is my 13k which gets around 10-15 X Strokes, stropped and shave tested. I don't paste anything (Partially because I don't think I need it, and partially because ChrOx is sold out almost everywhere except TI's overpriced goo) just use 40 Linen/80 Leather after honing and daily is 30/60.

    In reality it takes time to see what works for YOU. Everyone has their own guidelines, process and there's no magical formula that can pop up. For instance Glen gets amazing edges with what you see him doing in videos - I've tried and my edges aren't REMOTELY as good, however once I switch to my small circles/slurry combo I hit a winner and those friends razors that I hone seem to like them too.
     
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  9. oscar11

    oscar11 Well-Known Member

    Nicely done, Jamie. Excellent honing video, straight up with no nonsense.
     
  10. oscar11

    oscar11 Well-Known Member

    I'm not an expert by any means but to me this would indicate the bevel is not set.
     
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  11. HolyRollah

    HolyRollah BaconLord

    :signs011: :happy096:
     
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  12. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Hitting the "Stone/Hone" Wall and Climbing over


    1. Learn to walk away, if a razor has you stumped, learn to walk away, set that razor aside, and move to the next one, or get up and go do something else.. Sitting there Grinding on a razor normally achieves nothing good.. I have read posts where people are putting in more then 1 hour on one hone, that is just too long...

    2. Change something up (the ideas below are in no particular order)

    2a. Change Hones, Go up a grit, go down a grit
    2b. Add slurry or subtract slurry
    2c. Add a layer of tape or Subtract a layer of tape
    2d. Change your stroke patten, try circles, try X's , try Japanese, try Angled honing, get radical [​IMG]
    2e. Try stropping the razor
    2f. Try the Magic Marker test
    2g. Try killing the edge (Drastic) but it can work for many Chippy razors.
    2h. Try using a different brand/type of hone altogether (if you have them)
    2i. Add a little pressure or Subtract a little pressure while honing, never add enough pressure to flex the blade...

    3. Magnification is your friend, well lit Magnification is your BFF [​IMG]

    4. Jumping ahead, puts you behind, basically this really relates to the bevel set, if you say to yourself "Screw it, the edge is almost there, I will catch it on the next stone" you just added work for yourself and you are simply polishing the bevels.. Until that bevel is set from Heel to Toe and set correctly and evenly, jumping ahead is a waste of time...

    5. Going below a 1k (approximately) stone for anything besides serious edge restoration (Pre-honing) doesn't really save you time it simply cuts deeper into the bevel and that has to come back out, or you will have a weak/harsh edge in the end.. This is something you either have to trust me on, or you have to do the tests yourself.. Honest, if there was a "Faster" way to set a bevel I would be using it [​IMG]

    6. Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast, What does that mean ??? Well it means that doing it slow means that you will get a smooth consistent stroke, by getting a smooth consistent stroke you will hone better and faster [​IMG]
    If you try and rush the process, one small mistake sets you farther back, one single mis-stroke or miscue on the hone can erase all your work [​IMG]




    Just a few :)


    To the op,
    The width / size of the bevel is entirely a function of geometry UNLESS you are lifting the spine off the hone and honing like a Knife, Don't do that :)
    To much pressure can flex the blade and cause problems too, Don't do that either :p

    The 1k shave,
    Yes it can be done and yes it should be much more comfortable then you should imagine, it has been proved by expert and newb alike... If you really think you have a solid bevel set then stop honing, strop the razor and shave at 1k, do the same with each hone as you progress up the honing ladder, and I promise you will learn a bit about what the stones really do and what you think "sharp" really is
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  13. Waate

    Waate Member

    Some of the best advice I ever got honing straight razors which has already been mentioned but just to reiterate.

    1. Make sure it is shave sharp at the lower grits. As you move up in grit or hardness of natural stones you are refining the work already done. I take my time at the lower grits to make sure that the work is done before I move on.

    2. Pressure- Especially as you move up in grit or hardness you need VERY little pressure. You are sharpening the edge of the edge and it is important to use little pressure. Just enough to keep it on the stone. As you get better you are able to use less pressure to keep it flat and on the stone therefore producing a very sharp edge. Of course you do need some pressure at the lower grits to remove some steel.

    3. Pastes- Especially in the beginning pastes made a huge difference. Now, not as much because my honing has reached a level where the increase in sharpness is barely noticeable but in the beginning there was quite a gap to bridge and they did a great job.

    4. Have fun- I can not hone a razor when I am in a hurry or frustrated. It is such a fine art that you really do need to be relaxed. I watch tv or listen to music as I hone.

    After I started doing these basics it was pretty easy for me. Not to say that there aren't times where I get stumped but I put it aside and come back to it later and try something different and it never fails that I am able to produce a very sharp edge that gives me smooth, comfortable, and irritation free shaves. I don't use tape myself unless the geometry (or lack thereof) dictates it but I know there are guys out there that swear by it and use it consistently. Keep at it and you WILL be able to put a very keen edge on your razors. Just takes some time, patience, and willingness to try different things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
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  14. jabberwock

    jabberwock Well-Known Member

    Today I confirmed my first officially successful stone honing. It wasn't perfect and it wasn't in the same league as a professionally honed blade, but the results were a comfortably usable edge.

    I honed up a Boker Edelweiss that I just received from a member of another forum and I am happy with the results. The Boker had never even looked sideways at a hone before, so I knew that if I kept a steady hand and even strokes I would probably be OK. It was the first time that I have ever tried to hone a new blade without any history or hone wear. I didn't really do anything differently, but the end results were far better than my previous attempts. I have to conclude that:
    1) My ability to apply even and steady strokes is improving
    2) My other test razors may have more geometry issues than I realized
    3) I can do this
    I am still not where I want to be and even this successful honing is not as good as I would like, but it's close. I'm making progress. Now I just have to keep at it.
     
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  15. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

  16. Mr. Oldschool

    Mr. Oldschool Johnny Dangerously

    I just want to thank everybody involved in this thread for their input. My honing was getting nowhere, and my blades were stropped out as much as I could get out of them without honing. Between reading the tips here, watching Jamie's excellent demonstration and reading someone's instructions on a separate website that supported and reinforced what everyone here was talking about, last night I was able to hone both of my razors quite effectively. I find that my Worchester Razor isn't hollow enough to make for a very comfortable shaver, but my John Williams is restored to an absolute pleasure to shave with! When they are properly keen, with a good hollow grind, you almost can't even feel the blade as it glides along your face! I had forgotten how good it could be through the slow degredation of its edge over the last year. I'm thrilled as punch that I don't have to ship it off to be fixed again!

    The two biggest things that I had somehow missed in prior studying was the importance of slurry and the little circles bit. Somehow, those were never clearly defined or demonstrated in any of the previous places I looked. I also was making the mistake of thinking the real sharpening took place in the higher grits. Taking the process from two steps with an emphasis on the high grit coticule to a four stone and two-sided balsa strop process with more emphasis on the lowest grit with lots of slurry totally turned everything around.

    Thanks guys! I had a great shave this morning!
     
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  17. Waate

    Waate Member

    Well that was fun :)
     
  18. JoeB

    JoeB Well-Known Member

    This is a great thread!

    Learning to hone was difficult and just when you think you have a really sharp edge, you try a new stone or technique and you beat it.
     
  19. feeltheburn

    feeltheburn Well-Known Member

    Thanks for this video Jamie. Most of the ones I've seen show using just one hand. I tried that but it felt more comfortable for me to use both hands to hold the blade like you're doing. I got some decent results on my first attempt so thanks again.
     
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  20. FacialCarnage

    FacialCarnage Well-Known Member

    What honing method are you using?
     

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