Discussion in 'The Chatterbox' started by S Barnhardt, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Project Has Been Cancelled

    These people have indicated interest in going forward with this project.

    I have indicated what I perceived as their preference. But if I "perceived wrong", let me know so I can adjust things.

    @Enrico - Yes for the small batch / local potter
    @cliffb599 - Yes for the small batch / local potter
    @kjbarth - Yes for the small batch / local potter
    @RyX - Yes for the small batch / local potter

    It's my intent to keep this list updated. Check back from time to time to see where we're at with this.

    Interest Poll: Those in favor of a shave mug type with more convservative "printed" lettering.


    As of 11/16/2019 @ 1529 / 3:29 PM GMT, there has been no more interest expressed beyond the two listed above!

    As of 11/25/2019 at 1404 Eastern Time, there had still been no more interest shown in a TSD Mug as I'd laid out. Therefore, I will presume there is insufficient interest to proceed any further with this. Thank you to everyone who did help me with this. It is appreciated!

    Desired price point range (No more than)

    $0 - $10
    $20-$40 1
    $30-$40 1
    More than $60

    Update 11/07/2019

    There has been no more interest expressed beyond the 4 shown above. There has been "some" interest, again about 4 +/- in a "shaving" mug similar to what a commercial site used to have for sale. I've emailed them to see what, if anything, can be found out about that aspect.

    More when/if I know more......


    There comes a time in life when you pose a question and it heads in a direction you weren’t expecting. This TSD Mug/Cup/Stein thing did that for/to me! But, be that as it may, I shall forge forward. And, in doing so, I humbly ask for the understanding, cooperation, and assistance of you fine folks here in “The Shave Den.”

    A quick catch up before I get into the meat of this. Back in February of this year, 2019, @Missing Lynx, a member on TSD, was taking a favorite mug out of the dishwasher when he noticed the logo of the manufacturer on the bottom. Liking how the logo on that cup had been handled, he thought about the possibility of a TSD mug/cup. So, he started the thread “TSD Fundraising idea that may have just fizzled” in “The Chatterbox” forum here on TSD. As you can imagine, discussion ensued. To keep from rehashing things that have already been discussed, click on the following link to catch up on what was said then.

    To read the original thread click TSD Fundraising idea that may have just fizzled

    As you can see, there was some interest, but no one took the reins to see what it would take to get it going. @Missing Lynx has since gone silent, at least of this writing in mid-October of 2019. Thanks are extended to him for his beginning of this idea.

    Fast forward to the present. I asked about a TSD cup one day and was pointed to the thread that had been started previously along with a couple of mentions that I could be the one to see what interest might be present. Since I’d taken the liberty of asking for a no obligation quote from the company that made the one @Missing Lynx had and since he was no longer actively participating, I said “what the heck.” Now to what I’ve found out so far about this.

    In the hopes of keeping this more readable, I’m going to try to include each aspect of this in a separate post so the resulting posts will be shorter and hopefully more readable.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  2. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Present discussion on this mug idea is heading in a direction away from Sunset. For more information read further down in the thread! Thank you!

    The figures presented for this portion of the discussion are based on estimates only, since the actual choice of item, and it’s accompanying size and weight, dictates shipping costs both from the makers to us and from me to the intended recipient. I’ve used an estimate of a cup/mug plus necessary shipping material, in a 6x6x6 box, running approximately 4 pounds. Costs for shipping these items are based on the recipient being located within the confines of the continental United States. Shipping to those locations outside this restriction is so expensive, again estimated, as to render it highly unreasonable. Using these weight and size estimates, I came up with international shipping costs to run in excess of $100 plus per unit, not counting the cost of the item itself. These estimates were based on a “shipment” to the UK and to Turkey. And this does not take into account what is required insofar as customs, etc.

    Per unit price from the manufacturer is estimated to range from $11 to $17 dollars depending on the item, style, and glaze color chosen. Keep in mind this is subject change depending on the item chosen. We are talking estimates here! Not hard and fast prices. Add to that shipping costs to us and we are adding an estimated $2-$4 dollars per unit to that with an estimated cost range now approaching $15 to $21 dollars per unit based on an order of 24 pieces/items. Now remember from an earlier post, they will “not guaranted” an exact shipment of 24 with their policy of if your order ends up falling within their stated parameters, it’s considered fulfilled. Taking that into consideration, I estimate we can count on approximately 20 actual paying items bearing the burden of paying for the while order. I say that based on our need to repay the Queen for our use of her name and logo by contributing at least one of these to her for her annual “pay the bills” raffle. This will approach the per unit price to the 20 paying items of upwards of $23-$28 per unit. If the run goes over the 24 ordered, this 20 will end up having to pay more to cover the overrun, at least at the outset. If that overrun is sold, the resulting money will have to be directed to a then to be determined place. Possibly an additional donation to TDS? But that’s far down the road.

    So now we have these items at a roughly estimated cost of $28 dollars, we now have to look at shipping them to the recipients. This will incur a purchase of shipping material to include boxes, packing/cushioning material, tape and postage. To actually purchase these materials and pay postage on each individual item will run an estimated $18 to $24 per item. This combined with the estimated cost of the item of $28, we are now looking at a potential cost for each item approaching $52 plus per unit.

    If we go the USPS Flat Rate Box route using a “medium” box, this will put our shipping costs to the recipient at an estimated $17 range which coupled with the estimated $25 cost of the item, puts the potential cost to the recipient of approximately $45. Doing this we would be using USPS supplied boxes and acquire a tracking number on each shipment. But we would still need to buy packing/cushioning material and tape which I have figured into this estimate.

    So to wrap all that up, we are looking at each purchasing party having to pay, easily, in the range of $52 plus for their TDS cup/mug/stein. And that’s depending on what the end result is insofar as item, style, and glaze with a potential of each purchasing party having to come up with more to cover overruns if they occur.

    EDIT: To include photo of type mug we're talking about

    Cup Mug Capture 1.PNG
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  3. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Based on additional costs that have arisen since I wrote the original post above, the projected per unit cost is now $57 per unit. Again still an estimate.

    Before we take this any further, I'd like to call for a head count of those that would seriously have enough interest in this to go forward beyond these beginning stages. It would require payment upfront in the form of an official postal, or bank, money order. More to come on that aspect if, and when, enough interest is shown.

    As things stand, I envision this being restricted to those people with a US shipping address. This position is based on unknown customs requirements and costs and projected shipping costs running in excess of $100 - $135 in addition to the cost of the item.

    So, folks, let's see where we are at with this.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  4. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Present discussion on this mug idea is heading in a direction away from Sunset. For more information read further down in the thread! Thank you!

    Reserved for
    Graphic/Logo Proof Post

    As part of the quote process with the maker, Sunset Hill Stoneware, they also do a mock up of what your desired artwork might look like. This week, I’ve received back from them a proof of what they propose.

    One of these would be our logo, as it's presently constituted, should we decide to go forward with this project.

    tsd logo capture.PNG

    The accompanying information was on the proof sheet.

    proof sheet info from shs 1.png
    In other words, the white portion of this proof would be “raised”, as you will see later on in the pictures of their styles, etc., and the black portion would be recessed, or “sunken in”, and filled with the glaze that ended up being chosen.

    They also state on the proof there is a minimum order of 24 pieces of 1 color and style. 100% of the payment amount is required when ordering. Pieces falling within 2 oz +/- are to be considered acceptable. They will, as a matter of course, “throw” a few extra pieces when the order is made in case of breakage and/or imperfections during the firing and glazing operation. Those orders falling within 10% of the ordered amount will result in the order being considered fulfilled and will be billed as such. Due to this product being handmade, there exists the possiblility that there will be a possibility of variances in appearance from one item to another. Production times will vary depending on prevailing circumstances when the order is placed.

    There will be a one time artwork set-up fee of $50 in addition to the cost of the actual item plus the shipping of the item from the company to us. This artwork charge would be divided between the items being ordered.

    What this means to me is this. If we order 24 pieces, there may well be variances in appearance and we might end up with up to, and including, 10% above, or below our ordered amount. The full amount of the order will have to be paid when the order is placed and before they are produced. We “must” decide what is wanted artwork wise before the proof is approved which must be done before placing the order.

    I don’t presume to think this answers all questions or that I’ve relayed all that has transpired to you, but please ask questions and discuss now. Not later and after the fact.

    Next I’ll post graphics of their styles and glaze colors so that we may discuss that aspect.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  5. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Reserved for
    Graphic/Logo Proof Post
    Follow up
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  6. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Present discussion on this mug idea is heading in a direction away from Sunset. For more information read further down in the thread! Thank you!

    Reserved for
    Style and Glaze Selection Post

    Before we can truly get serious about price, we need to discuss, and decide on, just what exactly it is that we want and how we want it to look. To that end, I’m including links to this company’s style and glaze possibilities. Look at them, think about them, and let’s see what we can come up with. While I can certainly understand, and appreciate that there will be any number of people wanting different things in different colors, etc. The truth of it is this , unless each person wanting something different is prepared to step up and “be on the hook” for the cost, etc. of their individual 24 piece minimum, we are going to have to come up with one item with one glaze color and go from there. I know this sounds like I’m raining on some folks’s parades, but that is not my intent. So, to initiate this particular part of this discussion, I give you…..

    Sunset Hill Stoneware Mug Styles

    Sunset Hill Stoneware Stein Styles

    Sunset Hill Stoneware Glaze Colors

    Let’s remember, we will need to come up with one mutually acceptable style and color.
    May this discussion commence.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  7. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Reserved for
    Style and Glaze Selection Post
    Follow up
    kjbarth likes this.
  8. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Present discussion on this mug idea is heading in a direction away from Sunset. For more information read further down in the thread! Thank you!

    Reserved for
    Future Needs and/or Follow up

    Current tally of those who have expressed their desire to participate

    For this information please click "HERE" to go back to the first post of the thread where this list currently lives. Thank you!

    Two other potential options with possibly cheaper costs.
    I've always had in mind other options for this, but didn't have anything substantial in the way of showing you what it might be like. I still don't have much but given the current feeling about cost, I'm going to give you what I do have.

    #1 A mug hand thrown by a potter local to me. Other than knowing this woman for quite a number of years, I have no connection of a personal, or financial nature to her. I just know her work. She is an artist/potter/etc. by training with a degree in fine arts and has taught in the public school setting for a number of years. Throws pottery on the side in her off time. I don't have a picture of her work at the moment, but have asked for one and I'm sure I can/will probably get one unless she just doesn't have one. She has told me she will produce a mug for around $15 per mug plus the cost of having a stamp made which will add roughly $1-2 to the cost of each mug. They would have to be produced over a "number of weeks" as she does this after work, weekends, etc. when she's not involved with her teaching and family demands. This could still cost an estimated $20 to ship each mug raising the final cost of each unit to at least $35-40. Hopefully a picture to follow.... Again estimates only here.

    An update to this particular possibility has been posted below in response #27. Please look, read, and think about it.

    #2 A mass produced mug bought off Amazon and our "picture"/logo applied for $15.99 shipped. I'm going to include a screen capture of what it might look similar to. This is not with the hi resolution photo that would be needed.

    cheaper mug on amazon Capture.PNG

    Neither of these options includes the cost of producing a mug, or mugs, to donate for a TSD raffle. So, expect an addition to the cost of either option to cover the cost of doing that.

    I'm not promoting, or detracting, either of these options, but am merely presenting them to you as other options.

    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  9. Enrico

    Enrico Popcorn


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  10. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    Is that thumbs up signifying you'd be interested at the latest $57 price point, or an "I like the idea" kind of thing?

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  11. cliffb599

    cliffb599 Well-Known Member

    I’d be interested. Leaning towards the Executive Slim in Autumn Fire.

    Sent from my iPhoneXR using Tapatalk
  12. Enrico

    Enrico Popcorn

    I like the idea ...... but $60 for a mug ...... ugh!

    Believe me I really like it, but ouch!

    With a large enough group purchase it should much less.

    I wouldn't mind buying it from the TSD store and a large chunk went to support TSD. Just an idea. :signs002:

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  13. Enrico

    Enrico Popcorn

    BTW fresh awakening is cool in that blue as well.
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  14. Enrico

    Enrico Popcorn

    Something like $60 shipped, but $30 of it went to support TSD I'd probably go for.
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  15. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    I understand how you feel about the price. However, I don't know that there is a TSD store anymore. Please know this is not a for profit venture by anyone. I'm talking break even pricing here with a built in donation of product to TSD for their annual raffle to help pay the bills.

    I understand, but that price isn't all just the cost of the item. No one is making money off this. There is a minimum order of 24 to even get them at all. That price could easily be as much as 18 dollars or more, depending on the item chosen. Of this 24, it's not a matter of 1 of this one , 2 of another, 4 of this one, etc. It's 24 of just one style and one color. There is a 50 dollar set up fee for the artwork used to do the logo on the side with. That is divided among the ordered items. Of the 24 ordered, we could only be sure of getting 20 saleable items. This is because they will not guarantee you an exact 24. They consider 10% up, or down, the 24 as a complete order. Thus you could only get 22 or you could get as many as 27. You pay the per unit price for those. The "plan" was to donate 1 or two of the ones above the 20 sold to TSD for the annual pay the bills raffle. Now you have the 20 paying orders picking up the cost of the overage plus the shipping to us. That raises your price. Then you have to either buy boxes and shipping material to package and ship each individual cup to the person ordering it. Plus the postage to send it. If you have to literally buy all that you are looking at a cost to ship each cup of a tad either side of 20 dollars. These prices I just posted here are from my memory and are estimates only. The actual cost depends on the actual item chosen, the cost at that time, plus shipping costs, etc. etc. So, you see there is no way 30 dollars will cover the cost of each cup. TSD would benefit from donations to the raffle. I may be off here some, but not much. I'd have to go back over all my figures and notes to pin it down further. I'm just trying to give a reasonable ballpark estimate to see what desire there is out there. This cup I'm quoting here is a hand made, wheel thrown piece of stoneware. It's not a cheap import.

    There is another option I'm trying to put together that would be cheaper, but with a substantially lesser cup. But that depends on being able to get a high resolution image file to do it with. More, hopefully, on that later.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  16. kjbarth

    kjbarth Well-Known Member


    - Ken
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  17. Enrico

    Enrico Popcorn

    I hope you realize there was no disrespect intended.

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  18. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    I understand!

    At this stage of the game, all figures posted here are "estimates." However, they are, I feel, fairly close ones based on "research" I compiled.
    I would ask you, and any other folks, that should you have a queston and/or thought about something, be that price, "who from", etc. please ask.

    I can not say with any more strength that it is "VERY" important to me that you, and everyone else, know that this is "not" something I'm making any money on. By the same token, I don't want to have this end up "costing me" money either. So, to that end I will pass along any, and all, costs associated with this.

    I too want to help @Queen of Blades and TSD with the costs of maintaining this forum. It was, and still is, the intent from early on to donate to that to some degree.

    As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, due to this company's policy of considering their orders complete if the end result of the run falls within 10%+/- of the requested order amount. 10% of the 24 minimum is 2.4 or 3. So that means we might end up with only 22 or as many as 27. The number left over after the 20 "saleable" ones I spoke about were for the benefit of "the cause" in whatever form, or fashion, suited the Queen. Given what I'm dealing with insofar as costs, etc. ,this is the best I can do for TSD's benefit.

    So please ask should you have a question.
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  19. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn


    Just to let you all know where we are insofar as interest in this goes. There have been 2 people so far that have expressed an interest in acquiring a cup/mug. I'm posting this here and plan to try to keep a running total in an earlier post.

    "Reserved for Future Needs and/or Follow up"

    I encourage you to periodically look up there for updates.
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  20. S Barnhardt

    S Barnhardt Old, Crusty Barn

    I've included 2 alternate options in the follow up portion of this thread.

    Please go there for more on this.

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