Couple of Preshave questions (hot towels and oil)

I've been wet shaving all my life with various multi bladed cartridges. However recently I've decided cost was getting ridiculous for the number of shaves I was getting and so bought myself a nice shiny Merkur 33c safety razor (bought on holiday in the states as I couldn't find a store locally in Notts, UK that sold them and I wanted to hold it first!)

I bought 10 Mercur blades, I already had a badger brush, shave cream (The Real Shaving Company), alum and an aftershave balm (Nivea for Men).

Anyway, 4 shaves in and I'm confused and a little sore. It goes like this: before every shave I've showered and then:

#1 Just splashed face and a weeks growth with hot water, lathered, shaved, WTGx2 and the AGT Pow! BBS. I kid you not. I was expecting hell but couldn't believe my luck. Alum block at the end to close up. Bit stingy but it always is!

#2 Worst. Shave. Ever. The only difference I could work out is that I used a cloth to warm my beard before shaving and only had a couple of days growth . Worst rash ever. Felt like someone had poured acid over my face and pretty much looked like it as well (blotchy redness everywhere). Plenty of nicks but the alum block sorted that (it was a masochist who first tried that I'm telling you. God I could have screamed!) And it was a patchy shave at best. Plenty browsing of the web, found TSD and decided I'd maybe got over confident and used to much pressure.

#3 A little better but still hell. Same routine as #2 but little pressure on the blade. Where the weight would guide I let it. Had to stop after 2x WTG as didn't want Worst. Shave. Ever. Again. Sore for a couple of hours (although the wine that night might have dulled the pain) but looked OK by the morning.

At this point I'm miffed. Can't see what I'm doing wrong. Usual technique: shower, soften beard with cloth, good lather, gentle shave. Maybe I should be doing all that preshave oil stuff? Tried it once before and never got on with it, but I'm using a proper razor now so maybe I should get some. So I've ordered some, along with a selection pack of blades and a traditional soap.

Then #4. My new goodies haven't turned up yet so I thought I'd try and shave as I did in #1, namely no hot towel. OK. Not BBS but not too sore and pretty close. Some soreness on my neck and bit on my lip (I know I over worked that bit trying to get close). Alum quite stingy again..!

So, my questions (eventually!):

I thought the hot cloth would improve the shave but all it seemed to do was make things worse. I'm confused by this. Has anyone else had this sort of thing happen? (I've just seen a post about CWS that maybe explains some of this but I'd still be interested in your hot towel thoughts). Should I maybe forget that bit?

Preshave oil? Would that help with the hot towel? The stuff seems expensive for such small bottles. I can't imagine it's going to go that far? But then if I ditch the towel and I'm getting a decent shave then would the oil help improve it? Does it help others? (As I said used it once before and it said put a couple of drops on and rub it in. Never found that it really went anywhere or helped and then the bottle was empty all of a sudden).

If you're still reading, I thank you (and thank you to TSD for just being!) I'd never meant this post to come out so long! I love my new razor and I so want to be using it without carving up my face but at the moment I'm getting scared to use it! So far I've doubled my shave time and I need to try and bring that down as well. I appreciate that it might take a bit longer but 30 minutes is ages! I've got different blades coming so if I can get the preshave routine down pat then I can start trying different blades (you never hear anyone saying Merkur's are great blades) and maybe things will begin to gel..

 

Spike

First , with respect to shave oil, I find that a small dab of oive oil worked intothe skin with the hands works well and is less expensive than the commercially packaged stuff. I use it as prep and still shave with lather. find it helps
Second, with respect to the towel it should be not too hot to handle and really moist- if that doesn't work, forget the towel. Lots of guys don't use them at all.
Finally, about time. Your time should get shorter as you gain technique.

One last suggestion, go to Youtube and look up a guy called Mantic. He's put out a number of good insstructional videos that you'll find useful.

Best Regards

Goshawk

 

Let me start by saying, welcome to The Shave Den; I'm glad you were able to find us. I'm also glad that you were able to end up with a great shave on your first go. That just proves that you can do it. There may have been a little bit of, don't take this the wrong way, cockiness, for lack of a better word, on your subsequent tries. That has happened to me where I end up with a great shave and then I go out the next time and think, "this is easy, no problem" and then WHAM! I think that has happened to most of us actually. To address the pre-shave oil thing. You can certainly get a great shave without using oil. In fact I would venture to say most don't use a pre-shave oil. I have some, but rarely use it. If I do, I just pour a tiny bit on my finger tips and work it into my beard. You don't need very much. You said you are taking a shower before you shave, which is really all you need to do. (either that or a hot towel) The hot water and steam will soften your beard and hydrate your skin. From there you can apply your cream/soap and proceed with your shave. Now, to throw a curveball into the mix there are some that don't rely on heat to soften their beard but rather cold water to stiffen their whiskers and if that works for you, by all means go for it. I think since you had a good shave with the hot shower, you should stick with that for now, until you get your technique down. Since you have been using the same shaving cream the problem probably isn't with your cream, providing that you have whipped up a consistent lather each time. That pretty much leads us to the razor and blade. You have been using the same set up so that would lead me to believe that your technique just needs to be refined. That will only come by shaving. Since you are new to wet shaving with a DE another thought I have is that your face my not be adjusted to this type of shaving yet. It may take several times before your skin adjusts. The fact that your shaves were getting worse after the second shave was so rough, I would guess is that you need to let your face rest. I'm not sure if you are shaving everyday or what, but it you get torn up that badly it's a good idea to take a few days off and let your face heal; then try again. Basically I would stick with what worked the first time and remember, no pressure, no pressure, no pressure, and if you have a bad shave, take a couple days to recuperate and try again. I would also suggest buying a sample pack of different blades because if you are still having problems, your face might not agree with that particular blade and then you can try a different one. Please let us know how your next shave goes. Good luck!

 

Cheers for the replies!

Goshawk - I've got oil coming so I'll give it a go. Mind you if it works and I start to use it then maybe I'll give the olive oil a try. Not a bad scent at the end of the day (I know someone who used to sunbathe with it. They smelt great but got really crispy!)

tomnat - I think you're right on the cockiness. Definitely what I thought after browsing the forum after that second shave. Got over confident I think. If I have to shave regularly it would be every 2 days. The middle two shaves were a couple of days apart but I've left the 4 one for 4 or 5 days now (just working it out and can't remember when I shaved!) Either way, face was feeling better and there was decent stubble for #4. As for my face getting used to it - hows that? I'm assuming just a different way of shaving and so the skin changes over time? Not sure? Surly my wet shaving before would have done some of that work? (Although I guess cartridge blade angles are a lot more forgiving then a DE.)

The CWS does intrigue me but I think I probably need to master (or re-master) hot/warm first. Would never have gone cold water with a cartridge. Don't see that ending well at all!

I've come across a few of mantic's videos already and a few others as well. Watched hours of them I reckon by now! I think I've got most of the individual parts sorted it's just stringing them altogether in a way that works. If I could master it just by watching I wouldn't be sore right now

I've got a sample pack of blades coming with the oil so as soon as they get here I'll try a different blade. So far I've used a new blade for every shave but #2. Slightly wasteful but I thought I'd try to reduce the variables as I try to get my technique sorted.

Cheers again for the replies.. I'll let you know how the next one turns out!

 

Welcome Spike! Ya not to worry ..just sounds like growing pains lol. Good preps a good idea but most of your trouble's probably your technique IMO. If you watch your videos carefully, you hear 59 say remember to shave with the whole arm and not from the wrist..wrist shaving being a habit you picked up from the cartridge who's pivot can compensate for poor technique. O pressure's another good plan and though it's not good to overthink, you might want to give some thought as to how your holding your razor. Also make good and sure you've carefully worked in your lather especially on the neck area and just let sit there for two or three minutes before you go to it. Most people succeed and I'm sure you will too..so welcome again, ask lots of questions and happy shaving..

 

First, welcome to the Den.

Lots of great advice so far.
The only thing I haven't noticed is mention of your blade choice. Merkur blades have a love 'em/hate 'em following. There are many who love 'em, many who don't. You may be one the blade does not agree with. I would suggest a blade sample pack. Our own TSD Store sells 'em.

Stick with it and don't get discouraged. You'll get there!

 

Spike

The 33c is a good razor, I've used one off and on for 5 years, as Steve is saying the M blades though are iffy , I could only get one shave out of them. I worship Merkur brand so thats difficult to say.

The spectacular shave after 6 days growth isn't unusual.Many shavers on the forums note that a few days of letting the beard grow and a wet shave will get you a comfortable BBS shave out of this world. Not a cosmetologist or barber so I don't know exactly why that is . As Tom is saying I think your skin has to get used to wetshaving. Also you said you gently shaved but irritation too is linked to the amount of pressure on the razor . Your gentle shaving might not be gentle enough , coming from carts its easy to over due the pressure. The beard is scythed off the face , that mental pic helps me go very very easy. I struggled with irritation and it was linked to a heavy hand with the razor.

I use a hot towel with every shave, I have a coarse beard and its the only thing that helps. As Tom said the hot water is to soften the beard and skin allowing the beard to be cut more easily. Make sure the towel is really hot, if it stings your hand wringing it out its there. Also make sure you keep that towel on for 3-5 minutes allowing it time to do its job. Barbers used shaving cream/soap lather on the face under the towel to help the treatment.I have used Proraso preshave cream, facial lotion and preshave oil under the hot towel, pleasant, but not sure they help any. One thing is for sure I am convinced the hot towel works for me.

 

If you are I would just go with the shower and work up a good prep of a small amount of shave oil and a good lather.

I may as well introduce you to what I normally say. When I got started this advice was given to me and I took it and it was sound advice, so I give it freely. It is what I call the 30 day rule.

Find a razor, then a blade that will not cause issues with your face (that may take a few different blades in a sampler to find a suitable choice or it maybe the first out of the gate) and select a soap or cream that is easy to generate good lather. Once you find those, spend 30 days using nothing else until you build up your technique. After 30 days, change one and only one variable and work for another week. At that point you should be able to make better decisions because your technique is now in place.

Oh and one last thing.

Welcome to the Den.

We know you'll fit right in.

So grab yourself a comfy chair,

and give our threads a spin!

Burma Shave

 

For the most part no. I wash my face with Noxema and then do a towel. I mostly shave mornings so usually no time for both a shower and shave.

 

Thanks again for all the replies. Lots of good stuff and oft repeated advice. Guess it doesn't hurt to keep banging on about the things I should be doing. No pressure etc. Guess it takes a while to unlearn these things.

Couple of specifics:

I've always showered before the shaves. The hot towel was extra. Sounds like the problem was probably over softening and stressing the skin a bit before the shave but we'll see.

Zero pressure: Found lots of stuff about that after #2. I think that was part of the problem, cocksure over confidence from BBS on the first attempt combined with crap technique and too much pressure on top of the hot towel. Think there was a perfect storm there to create Worst. Shave. Ever.*

Oil: My goodies have turned up so I'll give it a blast. Now I've got it can't hurt to try it. Got a selection of blades so I'll work my way through them. I like the 30 day rule but to be honest I might just reign that in by a few days. Maybe a 3 week rule. Maybe even a 2. If something isn't working then I think I'll ditch it and move on. Can't be having a sore face all the time. As technique gets better I can always go back and hopefully if things do improve then I can go 30 days with the same kit and see what happens.

Straight Arm Shaving: something I picked up from some of the videos. Think I'm doing it, I'll have to check when #5 rolls round. But again, a pivoting head on a cartridge is going to be more forgiving and again, something that must be learned (or unlearn the limp wristedness).

So it'll be maybe Friday or Saturday for #5. I'll let you know. (Still a bit sore 20 hours after #4 as it happens.. not sure what's going on there.)

*Worst. Shave. Ever. Would it be crass of me to suggest a new acronym for the forum on my third post? WSE. Didn't see it on the Abbreviations list, but hopefully it wouldn't be needed very often. But I think it puts a point across.

Cheers again,

spike...

 

You may be suffering from advice fatigue by now ... but I'll take my chances and offer something that may or may not apply (don't think it's been mentioned above) ...

• Shoot for (only) a DFS early on rather than BBS. In line with this, sometimes it helps to avoid the ATG pass of the shave until you feel comfortable with it.
• Plus, a subtle technique I've picked up on in one of the Mantic videos (straight edge shave in Vegas one) is to not wipe with the towel between passes ... just dab [edit: pat] with the hot wet towel in between passes. I find this helps my skin from being aggravated to the point of irritation.

Anywho ... good luck over the next month or two ... you'll get it figured out! We're all on the path somewhere ... .

 

ok, this may sound completely stupid but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. On Sunday evenings I shave off 2 days growth, it's almost always an excellent shave. I'll admit that shaving off that growth feels so good that I probably push my luck regarding aggressiveness but it ends up being a very smooth shave, no irritation. Monday evenings shave- different story, I'll almost always have a little irritation and a few weepers. Now, I don't really think that I change anything from Sun. to Mon. rather that I pushed it too far on Sunday and sort of left my skin a little weakened by doing so thus the problem on Monday.

I like the WSE thing myself, might make an interesting thread.

 

Just a quick update. Done #5. Not good. Not as bad as WSE but bloody close. Sore, blotchy and spotty. 'king hurts. If my ride wasn't already on the way I probably wouldn't go out. Tried the oil. Not sure it made a difference! Maybe I should have put more on? But it doesn't look like it would last long if I did!

Got some other blades to try so that's probably going to be the next thing. If things don't start to improve (and it only needs to be a little!) I may have to re-evaluate the whole thing..

How many shaves was it before people here started to get good (well not good but less crap) at it?

 

Ya when I came back to DE shaving my first razor was a big heavy aggressive one with blades to match and I nearly beat it back to the cartridge. What I found out is that everything was ok except my technique..I was shaving from the wrist! So you may think you've got that covered but that's an ancient habit that can be tough to deal with..sooo just to see if it's really that, you can literally grab hold of your razor wrist with the other hand and this will effectively lock the wrist..just to see if there is any difference. Yes sometimes it's the hardware also but have a look to see if your wrist is really locking properly when you shave, particularly on the neck area. And for now at least..see what kind of shave you get only going WTG...

 

I'm not an expert so take this for what it's worth. Change blades. Nobody suggests you suffer for 30 days before changing something that's not working. Blades are very personal and it's very possible you've started with one that just isn't going to work for your face. You might try a two lather shave for a bit and skip the against the grain shave. I also notice that different shave creams work better than others for certain faces - but this seems too extreme for a cream problem. Good luck.

 

I always get a closer shave with 2 days of growth. It's always much smoother. I sometimes skip Saturdays because it's such a busy day around here. My Sunday shave is always super smooth. Monday can be touchy though. I don't know if the skin is irritated or since the shave was closer the whiskers aren't quite as long or what it is, but it's consistent. I've found using a less aggressive blade (for me Dorco) seems to help on those Mondays.