Discussion on Upcoming Custom Razor Raffle

Could this be interpreted as a private group, and therefore not being advertised outside the group to public concerns, therefore not meeting advertising of a 'raffle". Also Bill would not be receiving money if all proceeds above costs would go to supporting the website of the group.

Just my thought.

Also, maybe limit tickets to one per person??

 

Quick! Someone register theshaveden.org



As an aside, how about a limit of 1 ticket per customer?

 

Why don't we use Team Venus?

 

I aint scared (said the cowardly lion) I will hold the raffle.

Issy

 

Hmmmm,

This is quite curious, there have been several raffles lately on other sites I know of and I haven't heard of any problems with those raffles....

Never participated in one yet though Not sure how they set those up though...

 

Why not Have Bill donate the razor to the Shave Den and they can hold the raffel,just a thought
Kind regards Peter

 

Pretty.

J

 

To rule out any accusations against TSD that might come up if, for instance, one of the moderators wins the raffle.

I'm sorry to hear about the legal issues and I sure do hope we can find a way around them.
Ebay doesn't sound like a good option to me as it decreases the number of people being able to get their hands on the razor to those with large bank-accounts

 

Couldn't TSD simply purchase the razor from Bill, and then hold their own raffle for it? Wouldn't this relieve Bill from being the owner of the raffle from within CA's state lines?

I think this is similar to what Issy is proposing.

 

If Bill donates the razor to TSD but he acts as finance officer ticket Number allocator and the button pusher of the number generator on behalf of TSD ,no one can be accused of anything,except Bill ofcourse and God help the person that is silly enough to do that
Kind regards Peter

 

Well, i am not a lawyer, but from a layman's perspective it seems a raffle held by Bill in CA may be illegal. As far as the advices on interpreting the event in one way or another so that it doesn't seem that it falls under that jurisdiction, my feeling is that this doesn't make it more legal than it already is. The only way to tell may be to be tested in court, but I think it's small enough and meritless enough for anybody to challenge it.

So here are couple of points
1.) Bill wants to support TSD by making a donation and he makes (part/all of) his money by making razors and knifes. He wants to support TSD as much as one of his razors is worth. No problems here - can be done in plenty of ways, incl shipping the razor to the TSD owner, or mod or just selling it on ebay and forwarding the proceedings.
2.) Bill also wants to give a chance to people who may not be otherwise able to afford such a nice razor, to get one. Holding a raffle is the natural way to do this, however these being close to gambling seem to be fairly regulated, in particular in CA where Bill intended to hold the raffle.
2a) TSD does not have a non-profit status (obtaining it involves 6-12 months plus paperwork), therefore the raffle proposed in 2 may be illegal.
2b) Holding the raffle in a less-regulated state/county is probably the best option, however this presents further difficulties about practicalities most importantly the integrity of the person administering or the additionall stress they may get subjected because of this. Bill's concerns are valid here.
2c) I think most of us will agree that a raffle for $500 among people who trust each other and Bill is most certainly going to fly under the radar, but nevertheless if this is beyond the comfort zone of Bill we cannot ask for it. After all he has more experience with law enforcement than most of us here and his reputation is one of his most valuable posessions.

It certainly seems we are in a bit of a limbo and it depends on Bill how important to him is to give chance to people who cannot afford one of his razors to obtain one. I don't think any of us will have a problem with a moderator holding the raffle in a less regulated location. As long as it is clear ahead of time who is conducting ti and in what way, everybody is free to decide for themselves whether they feel it meets their idea of fairness and make a choice to enter or not. I expect that 100 tickets @ $6 each will sell within a week or two anyways.

One last point - it may be wise for somebody to look over paypal's rules, as well. They certainly do not allow gambling. And if they decide something is suspicious they will lock that account holding onto whatever money is in it.
An alternative payment processing system is google checkout (for now w/o fees) but they also do not allow any payments. I don't have time to look these up right now, but may be somebody will be kind enough to do it.

Finally as to how other sites conduct raffles - I don't think those have been originating in CA and the payments may have just flown under paypal's radar.

 

Everybody...

Thanks for all the input. This is still going to work, just not like I originally wanted it to. I was really hoping to accomplish two things. The first was to provide a razor as difficult to obtain as hen's teeth and/or give it to someone who could only buy it if they won the California Lottery. The second reason was to help the Shave Den out with a little money for the server charges and such so that all of us can play and gab and commiserate.

Whether I agree with California laws or not doesn't change the fact that I will not knowingly break them. And that's aside from the fact that they could confiscate one of my pensions... Loopholes ride the same bus as cheating, and I avoid them, as well. Allow me to say here that things aren't always about money.

I have been left with permission from Sparky to just give the razor away without charging a dime to anyone. No money - no lottery. California couldn't care less about it under those circumstances.

I gave him the option of having me sell it on eBay and turning the money over to the Den that it would have brought in. Instead of accepting that offer, he thought it was more important to do something for the membership knowing the whole time that it was going to leave him without several hundred dollars that the razor would most probably generate. Pretty selfless act, if you ask me. Go Sparky!

That means that the razor will be given away in a drawing here at the Shave Den as soon as it is finished. I still have to work out some details for the registration/rules. The razor will be given away without having any obligation to me or to the Shave Den, including any shipping charges it will take to get it to you. I'll take care of that as well. None of this has to stop you from donating a couple bucks to the Den to help keep it running if you chose to do so, however.

After the details are hashed out on this thread, then a separate one will be made to actually put your name in the hat. In the meantime... stay tuned.

 

Wow. Just wow. Benevolent gestures from all parties involved. Kudos to both you Bill, and TSD admins (Sparky, etc.) for this amazing display of camaraderie. Truly you won't find something like this on any of those "other" shaving sites!

 

Bill & Sparky this is excellent! I admire your generosity.
I would donate my ticket money to tsd and I am sure many others will do the same.

 

OK. So far, these are the rules for winning my custom razor.

• There must be at least 40 names on the list. If there aren't 40, I will sell it on eBay and direct some of the funds towards the Shave Den.
• The drawing will be held online in the Chat room at a time to be named later. (Probably around Thanksgiving)
• Entrants must be a Shave Den member with Mods/Admin being eligible, since I will be the one drawing the name from the hat.
• Entrants must have contributed at least 10 posts to the Shave Den site between now and the day of the drawing, all of which must exceed 50 words. Quotations from other posts don't count.
• The razor will remain mine. It will be provided, on loan, to the winner of the drawing for 99 years or until my wife cremates my sorry ass. That means the winner promises not to sell it to anyone else for any reason. Do not enter, please, if this is your intent. You would be disrespecting me, the Shave Den, and your mama if you did so. It may be returned to me if it turns out that straight razors aren't your thing. If you do sell it, I'll send my cousin Vinnie to come pay you a visit. I'll know where you live...
• Your Shave Den ID is your ticket number. This random list generator will be used to pick the winner.
• Modifications from this day forward, to the rules, will be entered in blue ink so they catch your attention.

Enter the drawing on this thread. Discussion about the rules and such can be made right here on this one.

 

Guess I better get working on those 50+ words posts. 10 of 'em you say correct? Minimum?

Easiest way I see is to bust out 10 reviews! WORD.

 

man, this loaner condition is harsh! i don't have problems with not selling it, but what if i want to leave it to my firstborn...
may be at that point i won't be scared of cousin vinnie, after all what can he do to me besides unburrying me...

I would hope the razor is so special to anyone who enters, that the question of selling it never comes to their mind, but it's good of Bill to make it perfectly clear

 

Leaving it to a family member earns you bonus points. Unfortunately, there are those who would see this an opportunity to make some serious money by selling it. That defeats my reason for giving it away and would piss me off to no end. I hope y'all can understand that one little tiny personality fault I have. (The others are big )