Gillette Toggle ?

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by Django, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. Django

    Django Member

    Hi i just found this Gillette Toggle on Ebay UK and was wondering what it is worth to bid on? I don't think the sell knows what it is.
    What are your thoughts?
    "THE TWIST RAZOR OPENS AND CLOSES BUT THE VARIABLE ADJUSTMENT IS SOLID"
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  2. chevyguy

    chevyguy Well-Known Member

    If the adjuster won't turn you could try soaking it in a mixture of Simple Green and water. I think it just has soap build up on the internals.

    Clayton

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers

    FYI, it's against forum rules to post about items currently being bid on. Buy It Now is alright though.
    That said, don't expect the price on that razor to stay low, there are 6 days left in the bidding.
     
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  4. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    From my reading the Toggle was a test that failed. Not saying I don't want one but not for the prices they commonly fetch. The good news is Gillette took what they learned and built Fat Boys, Slims, and Black Beauties.

    From the photos the plating looks like it's suffered. Either a well loved razor, or poorly stored. Don't know if this one is usable as is, repairable, or worth the cost of being restored. I read that at least one of the replating companies won't apply their service to Toggles anymore. I'm guessing they had problems with heavily corroded internal parts.

    This units value will be determined by the desire and cash availability of the bidders. I'd give $20 / £15 just to have that one in my den. That's more than I've paid for any of my adjustables, new or vintage.
     
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  5. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself

    I know that Chris at Razorplate stopped plating Toggles. Before that, this is what he said about the Toggle:

    The Gillette Toggle - Replating Facts & Issues

    This article is for informational purposes only.

    Effective 1/14/17, RazorPlate will no longer offer plating service for the Gillette Toggle razor.

    I would consider the Gillette Toggle to be the most difficult and problematic razor to replate.

    Although it is a unique and beautiful razor, it is fraught with issues. To begin with, it is a relatively flawed, mechanical design. Second, certain parts of the razor are highly subject to excessive brass corrosion. Further discussion of these facts will be described below.

    If you are thinking about replating a Toggle, please consider the following comments:

    1) I do not recommend rhodium plating for a Toggle that is to be used regularly
    • The toggle mechanism essentially acts as a latch and causes great wear to plating on the surface where the toggle mechanism contacts the handle of the razor.
    • Rhodium is a hard and brittle plating material as compared to other finishes.
    • Correctly-plated rhodium is very thin.
    • Rhodium that is thickly-plated is even more brittle and subject to crack, so heavy plating does not rectify this intrinsic, physical quality of the material.
    • Rhodium plating is exceedingly likely to fail where the toggle mechanism contacts the handle. It will crack and flake - probably sooner rather than later.
    • Rhodium requires a nickel foundation-plating and is tightly bound to it. Because of this, the flaking-away of the rhodium, at this contact point, is likely to lift the nickel underlayment as well.

    2) For some unknown reason, the brass components of a Toggle exhibit more significant corrosion issues when compared to other Gillette razors.
    • Most Toggles will have some degree of an etched and granular surface of the brass. Many will have overt pitting of the brass.
    • Locations of these brass surface irregularities are most common on the doors, the bottom surface of the base plate - and especially on the toggle mechanism.
    • While these brass flaws can certainly be reduced to a great degree, they are very difficult to completely remove, if one wants to avoid the risk of further razor damage that can be caused by employing heavy-handed corrective measures.
    • It is highly likely that the pre-existing damage will be, at least, slightly visible after a replate.

    I believe that Gillette plated most Toggles razors in gold due to the above-described reasons and the next two statements:
    • Gold is a softer and more malleable metal than rhodium.
    • Due to the excessive wear imparted by the lever action and direct contact of the toggle mechanism to the handle, gold plating will eventually wear, but is not likely to fracture and flake-off as rhodium can.
    If a Toggle is to be regularly used, I highly suggest 24K gold or basic bright nickel plating.

    If a Toggle is for display-only, rhodium is a beautiful finish..
     
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  6. Django

    Django Member

    Thanks for the info' guys but you must remember that I live in the UK so US re plating companies would not apply in this case . My Cousin owns a plating shop so i could twist his arm to do it also I can dis assemble and re assemble in my workshop so no worries there .
    Also I did not advertise the item link but just a pic' saying the razor was for for sale I'm sure everyone has a an Ebay email alert reminder for all things shaving anyway?

    Dave.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  7. jimjo1031

    jimjo1031 never bloomed myself



     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  8. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    No link to the auction, you're good.

    Do you have any photos of your cousins work?

    Tapatalk Via Kyocera
     
  9. john zeiger

    john zeiger Well-Known Member

    Django very interesting. Would someone please explain what a toggle is and how it is supposed to work? Is that thing on the bottom a toggle?
     
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  10. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    The Gillette Toggle was a limited edition razor - not many were made so it's value (sale price) is high being more folks wanting than available. It was Beta Tested by shavers in several markets, with changes in mechanics during the production run. Ultimately it wasn't produced in large numbers like other models. There were problems. The good news is that Gillette figured out how to make the adjustable feature work, and changed the toggle latch to a Twist To Open (TTO) style. The toggle latch had issues about holding the blade in place or the doors closed, and years later we see problems with the plating damage on wear surfaces.

    I've never held a Toggle, or seen one IRL. After reading about how the best bits of Toggles were incorporated into the later Gillette Adjustable line I'm happy with the great shaves I get from a E-4 Fat Boy.
     
  11. jmudrick

    jmudrick Type A Man

    A reminder for those new to vintage that dial adjustables and twist to opens were both around before Gillette decided to do them.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
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  12. john zeiger

    john zeiger Well-Known Member

    Thank you RyX and jmudrick for the explanations. It was very helpful I'm not new to vintage as I have a Slim and a 1946 to 1950 Gillette Tech along with a couple of injectors but I guess they would be new compared to the toggle?
     
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  13. jmudrick

    jmudrick Type A Man

    Toggles were test marketed '56-60.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
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  14. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    Yup, Gillette isn't the only razor. Just the Mega Corporation that monopolized the shaving world, bought up smaller companies to squash competition, and tried to convince us flippy floppy carts with lube strips are the future of shaving.
    @jmudrick - I don't own any (non-Gillette) vintage adjustables. I know you have experienced and experimented with many. Suggestions on makers and models of Adjustables I should be watching for?

    @ john zeiger - Here's a chart of Gillette razors I saved from when I was a B&B member.
    gillette styles.png
     
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  15. jmudrick

    jmudrick Type A Man

    The most common of the pre-Gillette adjustables would be the Gibbs, introduced 1934.

    Segal introduced their adjustable around the same time just before Gillette sued them for patent infringement related to the TTO design. Gillette lost.

    There are a number of early (1930s) French and German adjustable designs -- inclúding Hol'Pif, Walbusch, Apollo (version 1 of the Mikron), L'Essor, Le Coq, which tend to be rare and expensive. Ditto the Personna (1954) adjustable, basically a British Gibbs using standard blades.

    Then of course there is the Progress, based on earlier designs but first marketed by Merkur in 1955, and the post-war Apollo Mikrons/Ben Hur (roughly 1950, 1955), more common but prices on these have lately skyrocketed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  16. RyX

    RyX DoH!

    Opps, I misspoke. I do own and have tried many Gillette adjustables. It's the others you listed that I'd like to explore. Thank you @jmudrick! I'll look into expanding my knowledge and keep my auction eyes open for a Gibbs.

    Tapatalk Via Kyocera
     
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  17. Django

    Django Member

    Thanks RyX I'm glad i'm ok with forum rules. My cousin deals with re plating antique taps and bathroom items in 18 ct gold for anyone that can afford it!! I'm hopeful he will do me a favour! I'll see if he has pics of his work.
     
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  18. Django

    Django Member

    Thanks for the link Jimjo,
     
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  19. Django

    Django Member

    I agree with posters , It's a damn ugly razor but part of the Gillette history and would be a nice addition to anyone's collection regardless of condition.
     
  20. Jayaruh

    Jayaruh The Cackalacky House Pet

    Supporting Vendor
    I agree, too.
     
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