Hard Water - Does it really hamper your lather?

Discussion in 'General Shaving Talk' started by SharpSpine, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. SharpSpine

    SharpSpine Well-Known Member

    I just had a bit of a revelation with a simple phone call to my local water plant. Quite often I hear that we blame water hardness for the inability of a soap to lather. I am guilty of this as well and even skipped on getting a certain soap because of my hard water before. However, lately I've been achieving some great lathers even in my hard water. I won't say that creating my lather is easy as I'm pretty certain from reading how long people typically spend creating their lather that I have to work my soaps longer and harder to get the lather I like. However, I was still getting great results with soaps that notoriously are hard to lather with hard water. Soaps such as MWF, Cade, and modern Williams. These results started to befuddle me to the point where I was questioning if I really did have hard water. So this morning I made a quick call to the water department who kindly gave me the number to the local water plant. I asked the gentleman at the plant if he could share some water hardness information with me and he was very happy to. He gave me 2 different measurements of the average hardness of our local water and here are the results:

    1. 180 parts/million also listed as mg/L
    2. 11-12 grains

    With the following chart we can see what category my water falls into:

    Water Hardness Scale
    Soft: < 1.0 grains; < 17.1 ppm or mg/L
    Slightly Hard: 1.0 - 3.5 grains; 17.1 - 60 ppm
    Moderately Hard: 3.5 - 7.0 grains; 60 - 120 ppm
    Hard: 7.0 - 10.5 grains; 120 - 180 ppm
    Very Hard: < 10.5 grains; < 180 ppm

    So it appears that even in the best case scenario that my water is considered hard, and more likely stays in the very hard range.

    This was a revelation and validation to me that these soaps which are definitely high quality can be lathered even in hard water. Yes, they may take some extra loading time (I typically load for 60 seconds and have plenty of leftover lather). Yes they may take some extra elbow grease whipping up the lather to the right consistency. Is it worth it? Well that is entirely up to you to decide and I'm sure plenty will say that it isn't when so many other great products lather just by showing them a shaving brush. To me, however, it was kind of a challenge to get anything that I owned to lather. With some practice and patience I'm happy to say that I've succeeded. For me this journey and effort without a doubt has been worth it. MWF is my favorite soap all around. Cade is my favorite scent right now and I can actually shave with it; it doesn't need to be relegated to a bath/shower bar. The jury is out right now on modern Williams as I haven't shaved with it yet, but I've done quite a few test lathers and to be honest it just explodes into lather for me (I'm very thrilled about this since I just invested a little over $6 for 11 pucks of the stuff!).

    I hope this encourages you to buy whatever soap interests you and not to get too frustrated if things aren't working for you right away. Everyone's setup is unique so it really comes down to trial and error for each shaver. I certainly hope though that my experience from this journey may be able to assist some others in their lathering education as well.

    This post would not be complete without a thank you to all who have helped me along the way with my lathering abilities (unfortunately lathering was not a God-given birth talent to me). I've gleaned so much from so many with their posts here at the Den so I can't even begin to list people. But I want to give a special thanks to Johnny for his expertise with MWF that really helped me to have a lathering breakthrough. Thanks Johnny!
     
  2. lradke

    lradke and doggone it, people like me

    Hey Brian, this is a good write-up. That got me thinking about my water so I decided to check out the hardness where I live. The newest report that was printed is from November '11. There it stated that the water hardness is 173mg/L (or ppm). This has me questioning the reliability of the statement regarding hard water and the latherability of soap. Similar to how you found your key to generating lather, I am finding that for me it has to do the brush being used. To be honest I too love MWF, and could only really lather it with a boar brush (badger was too floppy). But since I received my Colonel brush, I find it can lather MWF easier than anything I have used before!

    After reading your post and when you say:
    I can only reply: "I couldn't agree more!" Thanks Brian!:signs107:
     
  3. Everett

    Everett Well-Known Member

    When I first moved into my new place over a year ago, I was having trouble lathering as well as I used to when I lived in the city. I pump water from a well now, and it is very hard. It gets filtered, so its crystal clear, and tastes good, but shaving lather was my only issue to begin with, and it is no longer an issue. Dish soap in the sink explodes into huge amounts of bubbles, so why shouldn't I be able to get a good lather.

    The first thing I figured out, like Brian, is more product. Secondly, it just takes more time to lather, so its a bit more work, but the end product is almost always thick, smooth, slick lather, no matter which soap or cream I use.

    If you have hard water and have difficulty lathering, just keep at it, and you will get the hang of it sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.
     
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  4. Regan

    Regan Well-Known Member

    According to my citys posted information says that our average water hardness is 438 Mg/L Range of 300-580... which is crazy high. Last time i looked we had some of the hardest water in Canada. It can be a pain in the butt however the only soap or cream that I can recall that has really given me any problems is MWF. However MWF causes issues with many other user who don't have hard water.

    I just start with little amount of water... and then slowly add and work all over my face... lather might not look the best or be the best but HEY, it works great for me, no knicks cuts or what not. Still is very foamy, not airy and moisturising.
     
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  5. Everett

    Everett Well-Known Member

    What I have found with mine, is if I add too much water at once, it likes to get airy. Not sure if this is exactly the same with soft water, but that's that!
     
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  6. Williams Warrior

    Williams Warrior Well-Known Member

    I have hard well water and switched to distilled water about a year and a half ago. .89 cents a gallon and a gallon lasts me about 5 weeks, so my problems went away easily. With distilled water there is no soap or cream that I've come across that I would call a problem child.
     
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  7. CyanideMetal

    CyanideMetal Wild and crazy guy

    If anybody is having trouble bowl lathering certain soaps or just in general, try face lathering. The skin and especially whiskers provide good friction for the soap to lather against. I think sometimes a slick-bottomed bowl and hard water make it difficult to get a good lather going.

    I used to only bowl lather, but I recently swithced to face lathering exclusively and enjoy it.
     
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  8. Williams Warrior

    Williams Warrior Well-Known Member

    Face lathering is where it's at.
     
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  9. SharpSpine

    SharpSpine Well-Known Member

    I'm an avid face latherer as well. I didn't take that aspect into consideration but it is a valid point!
     
  10. supe

    supe Active Member

    excellent post Brian!
     
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  11. SharpSpine

    SharpSpine Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much Supe!
     
  12. SharpSpine

    SharpSpine Well-Known Member

    Using more soap/cream in hard water seems to be the factor. Here is a quote from someone else explaining a bit of the chemistry behind it...

    "The Ca and Mg form insoluble salts with the soap. These salts cannot form lather. So by adding extra soap, you first bind the Ca and Mg and then form the lather with the remaining soap."
     
  13. Bobcat

    Bobcat Well-Known Member

    Another thread back from the dead. I didn't see a reason to start a new one.

    I know I have hard water. I use a tsp of Baking Soda in the sink and 1/8 tsp in my brush bowl to help. I will occasionally use distilled water in my brush soaking bowl. I ordered a free test strip from Morton to test the hardness: http://www.mortonsalt.com/for-your-home/test-your-water

    You can also get them from almost all water softener companies.

    I thought some of y'all may want to test your water just to see where it registers.

    (Yep, slow day for me.....)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. feeltheburn

    feeltheburn Well-Known Member

    My water hardness is 285 ppm according to the water district's website. Using more product seems to work for me and it doesn't bother me all that much. If a puck of soap or tube of cream lasted me 6 months of daily use, I'd have no reason to buy more....ever :)
     
  15. Sunflake

    Sunflake Well-Known Member

    My lather got so much easier after I put in a softener. Now soaps just explode into lather. I thought I got good lather with Proraso until the softener sooooo much better now.
     
  16. KLF

    KLF Doctorin

    I tried the baking soda but didn't have much luck. Our water is very hard, I don't know exactly how much. Maybe I should try more soda...
     
  17. HolyRollah

    HolyRollah BaconLord

    if I ever have problems getting good lather, I have to blame the operator, not the water.
    Our primary H2O source where I reside is the Sierra Nevada snowmelt, with an soft range of 1-7 ppm.
     
  18. Ryan B

    Ryan B Knight of the Soapocracy

    According to that, my water is in the hard range. I use more product and it seems to work better.
     
  19. Sunflake

    Sunflake Well-Known Member

    That's pretty soft water!
     

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