Hone Gripe

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by DDuckyMark, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    I have an unknown natural stone I bought in a local shop years ago that I'm just now getting around to lapping. I don't know much about it except that it was supposedly mined locally in the Mountains of NC. I lap on wet/dry sandpaper on a marble slab. I started with 400 grit thinking that it looked pretty smooth and after I cleaned it up some with that I saw the chatter looking marks and small pits and the corner that is lower then the rest of the stone. I went back to the 220 grit and it is taking what seems like forever to lap this stone into true. Thats all I really had to say.

    I don't know if I'll see them before I get done but do any of you have any suggestions for lapping with wet/dry sandpaper? Also is there a way to know what kind of stone this is? I posted a picture once and Glen said it may be a hard dense Arkansas stone but it seemed to soak up water so it might not be. It is much harder and finer then I thought with a very glass like feel after I had some smoothed with the 400 grit. It takes awhile to create a slurry and its hardly removing any material with either grit of sandpaper.
     
  2. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    I've noticed that it doe not soak up water like I thought when I posted about this stone a few weeks ago. The cork backing soaked up the water and made bubbles in my well making me think it was soaking up water. While wet I can see some blue veins of color on the sides of the razor. It runs all the way through the stone and is even from the top all the way around. one larger Blue vein with several smaller running all the way up and down the sides of the stone. The face I can see is a solid even color.
     
  3. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    Supporting Vendor
    I have a couple of unknown natural hones too. One of them was taking forever to hone. Still haven't IDed it. Do you have any pictures of this one?
     
  4. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    Not any good ones. I'll take more when I'm done Lapping it to flat. I got the middle but it was cut bulged so I still have quite a bit of work to go. I'll also lap one side so its easier to see the 'grain' of the stone. I'm working on getting the middle down to the ends and still working out the pitting on the ends as well. Its not terribly deep but the stone is so hard that its taking a ton of time and I'm going to have to change sandpaper because its getting smooth faster then the stone.
     
  5. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    Supporting Vendor
    That part of it sounds like my Arkansas stones. They took forever to lap with wet dry.
     
  6. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    Water almost beads up on it and all it takes to dry it even after soaking is to wipe off the excess water and blow on it.
    I have pictures I'm fighting my wifi to get them uploaded. I had to rest awhile my arms are tired.
     
  7. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    Here it is wet.
    [​IMG]
    Here is the edge wet.
    [​IMG]
    And here it is dry.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    Now I'm having trouble setting a bevel on one razor. The other one just popped on there almost without trying and this one is fighting back. I had to work out some nicks in the blade but they are gone using a 3 layer of tape bevel and Glen's steep angle bevel set and I have worked my way down to one layer and can only get it to pop hair for the middle 50% of the blade. I've even gone back to watching Glen's youtube videos trying to find the problem. I may just be too frustrated with it. I'll finish the first one and work on this one again tomorrow.
     
  9. feeltheburn

    feeltheburn Well-Known Member

    As hard as that stone sounds, it could be a Surgical Black Arkansas which is a pretty good finisher IMO. I like mine. I'm no expert on this though. Maybe post your pics over on SRP if nobody here has a good idea.

    I think with Arkies, most guys who lap them seem to use loose silicon carbide powder. You might also try using a finer grit wet or dry sandpaper. It's counter intuitive but sometimes finer grits can work better on some materials. Good luck with it and hope it's worth all the work when you're done. :)
     
    gssixgun likes this.
  10. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    I gave up on it after 4 hours. I had the pits in the ends maybe halfway lapped out. I decided to just move on to my King 1k/6k and lap the stone more tomorrow. I was switching back and forth from 220, 330 and 400 because the lower grits leave scratches and I couldn't see how it looked until I got them out with the finer grits.
     
  11. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    I am still seeing an Arkie :)

    To be honest unless the pics are very obvious Think Coticule :) looking at pics on the internet is one of the worst way to guess at an unknown stone LOL

    Is it really Dense ??
    Arkies are very dense in relation to most other hones

    A good Arkie can be a great finisher I used one and only one for over 20 years to maintain two SR's way before the internet hehehe

    If it is then the most important aspect of using them for a SR is the setup, they need to be really smooth to work well I actually burnished mine with steel before it ever touched a SR :) quite a bit of work goes into the setup
     
    45auto likes this.
  12. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    It is unbelivably dense. Even the 400 grit leaves scratches. The slurry is almost white when it comes up.

    I was going to ask where it fell in a progression but you answered me before I was able to ask. If it acts the same today as it did yesterday then I have 3 or 4 more hours to lap before I work out the remaining pits. I'll work on bevel setting now before I tire myself out lapping this other stone. Maybe that was my problem.
     
  13. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    Supporting Vendor
    I stopped lapping my Translucent Arkansas, even though it still has a bit of a dish according to the pencil grid. I just wasn't getting anywhere. I haven't noticed any issue with using it. If that is an Arkansas, they are very slow stones. Mine works for a finisher, but I don't have a lot to compare it to.
     
  14. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Some of the softer Arkies can be used in the Middle range but honestly if you have the King 1/6 IMHO it would be a waste of time and not do a good of a job :p

    Last Arkie I lapped I used the DMT 120 plate and it took forever to get it flat, never again hehehe

    That was just getting it flat, after that you have to get the surface set up and burnished like glass.. You have to love Arkies :D
     
  15. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    I have mine flat it took about 5 hours. I'm still working on some pitting where the cut wasn't smooth. If it works as a finisher then thats great. I have the King1k/6k this stone and a badly chipped barbers hone. I would like something between 1k and 6k but one more hone is much more affordable than a whole set. I don't think I'll do anything with the barbers hone. My ex-wife throwing it at me ruined it. I would need to take off too much of it to lap out the chips and I would need to polish it after it was flat. I don't know that it would be worth it.

    I feel like have a DMT or 3 would make this go faster. I may need to buy more sandpaper since all mine is mostly smooth after the 5 hours I've already spent on this stone. I know that you @gssixgun suggested a naniwa progression of 1k,3k,8k,12k. When I get a job again I'm hoping to still get those. Where would an Arkie fall in that progression?
     
  16. Drygulch

    Drygulch Snowballs

    Supporting Vendor
    Whipped dog has what appear to be used DMTs in their store for $15 bucks.
     
  17. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Either instead of the 12k or after the 12k you will have to try it both ways to decide,, and it might change as you get better at honing :p

    One thing that you hear often is something I said years ago that people have figured out to be true,,
    "To add a finisher after the 8k level (not hone) is a waste of money until you learn how to get a CCS at that level"

    It holds true still
     
    45auto and Drygulch like this.
  18. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    I was about to get one right before I lost my job. I will probably get some when I get a new job.
     
    gssixgun likes this.
  19. DDuckyMark

    DDuckyMark Ducky Duck and the Hiding Bunch

    Right now I'm struggling with a bevel so I'm sure I have plenty of time before I get anything else. I got this Nat stone for $20 at a local antique store 6 years ago. I probably wouldn't have gotten one now.
     
  20. Honer

    Honer Member

    I view the Arkansas Surgical Black and Transluscent as post finish polishers. They are so slow. Removing 8k scratches would take hours and I would expect a good finisher to be able to do that. But follow a 12k synth with the Ark and you get a new level of keen and smooth. I like glycerin and water more than oil. Even soap works for polishing.

    I can see working with a little dish in the stone, but an uneven surface would make things challenging. You can put 10 years of wear on a DMT diamond plate in 5 minutes of lapping with these things.
     

Share This Page