Hydrosols -HYDROSOLS - My Google/Excel Dream or was it a nitemare?

Discussion in 'Skincare' started by hyperwarp, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    I've been using one of the more "famous" hydrosols since I started wet-shaving a while back. Really like the hydrosol.

    Anyhoo, was reading some old posts at (another) foum which set me off
    on one of those interesting GOOGLE searchs that just keeps sucking you in deeper & deeper & deeper....LOL...U all know what I'm talking about !!!

    I just posted this at the forum & wanted to post it here & one other Forum as well as I'm really wanting some opinions about my findings.
    And suggestions also.....My post follows:

    Cliff I checked the MRH link you so kindly provided. Egads, found they even sell GALLONS of the stuff. This got me started on a GOOGLE tangent for Hydrosol & found several places that sell by the pint, quart, 1/2 gallon & gallon.

    Surfing those sites found some interesting things:
    1) A lady I took a Herb Course from like 35 years ago in SF,CA apparently came up with the appellation "hydrosol". Her name is Jeanne Rose. Geez, even 35 years ago she was a fount of knowledge about most things herbal. Guess she got pretty famous in the crowd over the years. LOL...she was a danged good teacher too.

    2) Several sites mentioned that the shelf life of "pure" hydrosol stored 'chilled' in glass container was generally about 2 years. That time was subject to degradation depending on how the "hydrosol" had been handled through it's production, subject to contaminants, etc.

    Since hydrosol is basically water it was mentioned that after 2 yrs or less the product can be a real bacterial/microbial growth factory. Just like regular water. It was recommended that hydrosols for "commercial" purveyance be treated with teensy weensy minute-minute amounts of anti-microbials/germicides for longer "shelf" live.

    So that got me to wondering if our hydrosol vendors are selling 100% pure hydrosol or 99.999% pure + harmless perservative?

    The only vendor I've bought hydrosol from (a highly respected person)labeled it "Ingredients: natural organic (flavor) hydrosol". No mention of additives, so am wondering if I should use this up PDQ ?!?!? Geez, don't want some weird bacteria eating my face off !!!

    The other thing that struck me on my search-quest was wildly differing prices. For example take a GALLON of product from several vendors:

    LAVENDER HYDROSOL GALLON $102.00 @ Mt Rose Herbs
    LAVENDER (Bulgaria) GALLON $59.00 @ From Nature With Love
    LAVENDER HYDROSOL GALLON $35.00 @ Organic Creations
    LAVENDER HYDROSOL GALLON $180.00 @ Organic-Hydrosols.com

    so on the Lavender we have differences of up to $145 a gallon !!!

    ROSE HYDROSOL GALLON $105.00 @ Mt Rose Herbs
    BULGARIAN ROSE GALLON $120.00 @ From Nature With Love
    ROSE HYDROSOL GALLON $37.00 @ Organic Creations
    ROSE HYDROSOL GALLON $216.00 @ Organic-Hydrosols.com

    so on Lavender we have differences of up to $179 a gallon !!!

    Am wondering how this can be? Guess, hydrosol isn't necessarily hydrosol !!!

    I think that I read that the Bulgarian products are more expensive but the
    non-Bulgo's vary wildly also.

    So am hoping that someone knowlegdable (prehaps one of our Fab Soap Makers) may shed some light on my 2 questions.

    1) If I buy a quart or a 1/2 gallon of "non-treated" hydrosol should I mix a little anti-microbial agent in there? What would the "mildest" yet effective anti-microbal be?

    2) What's up with these crazy prices. Cheapest sure isn't always the one to buy. Any feedback on the hydrosol vendors mentioned above. Are there quality issues that they just don't discuss at their sites?

    I really wanna buy a couple jugs of Rose, Lavender & Witch Hazel to keep around. Heck, I bet most of us Wet-Shavers could go thru a 1/2 gallon of Witch a year easy !!! Buying a 1/2 gal or gal looks like huge savings over drugstore or e'tailer prices...BUT I don't wanna get sick from bacteria.

    Really would like feedback about the above vendors. They all have nice, professional looking website but it's hard to swallow why one would charge $35 for the Lavender and another $180 !!
     
  2. Queen of Blades

    Queen of Blades Mistress of Mischief Staff Member

    Moderator Supporting Vendor
    Quality and method of extraction will have something to do with the price differences. There is also the different species of lavender and such. Even EOs of Lavender have varying prices.

    From Mt. Rose Herbs (reputable site)

    Lavender (40-42) essential oil (Lavendula spp.)
    Origin- Spain
    Method of Cultivation- Cultivated

    1/2 oz $3.75



    Lavender essential oil (Lavendula angustifolia)Origin- Bulgaria
    Method of Cultivation- Organic

    1/2 oz $8.50


    Lavender, Spike essential oil (Lavendula latifolia)
    Origin- Spain
    Method of Cultivation- Organic

    1/2 oz $5.25
     
  3. IsaacRN

    IsaacRN Active Member

    I dont even know what a hydrosol is :(
     
  4. Queen of Blades

    Queen of Blades Mistress of Mischief Staff Member

    Moderator Supporting Vendor
  5. IsaacRN

    IsaacRN Active Member

    So this would be added to things like soaps and what not correct?
     
  6. Queen of Blades

    Queen of Blades Mistress of Mischief Staff Member

    Moderator Supporting Vendor
    Aftershaves, and such yes.
     
  7. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    They would generally be used as a extremely better replacement for water. You get a nice scent, and some of the advantages from the plant as well, without having to put straight essential oil on your face (ouch).
     
  8. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Thanks for your thoughts 'n insights QOB.

    Prehaps our other "artisanal" craftmeister's & meisteresses haven't dealt with
    the other vendors I mentioned: From Nature With Love, Organic Creations
    or Organic-Hydrosols.com.

    I just ran across these Googling & found the price "spread" puzzling, especially the huge "gap" between hi-end 'n tail-end. Your reasoning about
    quality/grade & method of extraction is probably "spot-on".

    Wondering if anyone else might have suggestions for hydrosol vendors for gallon or 1/2 gallon quantities?

    The way I'm tearing thru the Witch Hazel I really need to buy it by the Gallon & then mix it with something like Rose or Lavender hydrosol.

    Am thinking that buying WH like this will get me "pure" WH. The kind I'm finding at local drugstores is usually 14% alcohol & I don't want any alcohol.
    By mixing it with a floral hydrosol & maybe some aloe or something, am thinking I can save alot of money over the Thayer's Flavors I've been using cause they're like $8-$9 a bottle here locally.

    Any help or suggestions any of our most esteemed & respected Artisans would have in this regard would be slavishly or lavishly appreciated by a certain ignoramous (moi !!!)
     
  9. fisherc

    fisherc New Member

    One of the highest quality and lowest priced hydrosol vendors is http://www.naturesgift.com. If you want large sizes (16 oz and up) email them directly with what you want and what size. The larger sizes ar enot posted and are much lower priced per oz than what is listed. The Buena Vista Lavender and the Rosa Alba they offer are fantastic. Be aware that hydrosols typically have no preservatives and are subject to spoilage. They should be used quickly or stored in a refrigated environment for longer term usage.

    Chris
     
  10. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Thanks Chris will check them out.
     
  11. moviemaniac

    moviemaniac Tool Time

    I most certainly think the prices are linked to the quality (machinery used, bacteria-free-ness, quality of the raw-material, country in which it's produced (think wages) etc.)

    Though I have to say I don't use Hydrosols. I have enough different stuff in my shaving routine already, I don't need another thing to be messin' around with. Lately I've even cut the Preshave and many times the ASB with the same great results in less time - when you shave at 05:45am time DOES matter :D
     
  12. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Datz y I'm a Nite Shaver, way more pamper time. Fortunately, am blessed with a light beard & no problemo w/5 o'clock shadow
     
  13. Issy

    Issy TheMadSoaper

    OK, here goes… my favorite hydrosol for an aftershave is witch hazel. The best price I have found is http://addy.com/brinkley/186.html it is steam distilled and they use benzoic acid as a Preservative, which is used in foods, although it still needs to be refrigerated. You can add the essential oil of your preference to it if you want a different scent than witch hazel. You cant beat 22 bucks (before shipping) for 4.4 lbs. I would also add some aloe juice to it, which also needs to be refrigerated. As for a preservative if you wish to leave much out on the counter you will need one. There are a few available that are paraben-free and formaldehyde-free and only require .75 to 1.5% of the total weight. Some of the big name company’s (I wont use names) advertise using grapeseed extract but this is NOT a presertive but an antioxidant about in the same class as vitamin E. It only slows down oxidation and still can grow nasties. This being said if you use a lot of it and plan on keeping all but a few oz at a time in the fridge enjoy and save some money.
    I already have the money invested in the scales to weigh things like this so you can leave it sitting out but do not plan on offering much more but soap anytime soon…but one day.

    Issy
     
  14. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Thanks a bunch, Issy. 'Preciate you taking time to share your knowledge in this regard.

    Is refrigerator (of all but the little bottle you're using) alone safe against microscopic beasties? Have run across the "GrapsSeed Extract" at a few sites
    & sure got the impression that it is a substitute for paraben, germaben type
    additives. Glad you cleared that up. Will keep Googling for possible paraben, germaben etc "substitutes". But if refrigeration will do the job might just settle for that, but, dang I do like to hava a big ol'Quart of Witch cached under the sink !!!

    If anybody has any further ideas on non-traditional, prehaps even natural
    antimicrobial agents please share the info on this thread.

    Am sure I'm not the only shaver who's looking to whack his Thayer's bill &
    kinda feel good experimenting to find a mix that works real good. Issy's great idea for mixing a l'il Aloe juice into the mix sounds like it'd be really good & soothing to just shaved skin. Think it would be fun to experiment with
    different proportions to get just the product you want on your own.
     
  15. Issy

    Issy TheMadSoaper

    There are a few preservitives that are "almost" natural..derived from natural sources anyhow but yes it will last a good while in the fridge

    Issy
     
  16. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Am Googling like :roflcrazy:rofl but so far no luck on the preservatives you are tantalizingly dangling out there,

    Next Google seach will be on string: "preservitives that are "almost" natural":ashamed001
     
  17. Issy

    Issy TheMadSoaper

    just a hint.. Geogard® Ultra Powder

    Geogard® Ultra is a biocide introduced by Lonza in 2005 to meet the growing demand for alternative cosmetic preservatives. With growing concerns over traditional preservatives such as parabens, Geogard® Ultra provides a single solution to companies seeking alternatives to traditional preservatives. Geogard® Ultra’s global regulatory acceptance, broad-spectrum activity and multifunctionality means it can be utilized in a wide variety of cosmetic products like shampoos, lotions and skin creams. Unlike traditional cosmetic preservatives, Geogard® Ultra can be used in cosmetic products that are marketed in major markets around the world: Europe, Japan, North America and South America.

    Geogard® Ultra helps prevent product spoilage by utilizing less aggressive: “Hurdle Technology.” Instead of a harsh, aggressive approach with bacteria and fungi, Geogard® Ultra primarily functions by creating a more hostile environment within the formulation for microbes to overcome. Potentiators within Geogard® Ultra help create such hurdles, increasing the self-preserving environment of formulations.

    Geogard® Ultra also provides greater utility with its multifunctional action. Geogard® Ultra not only provides effective protection against product spoilage, but it can also increase the skin moisturizing capacity of the formulation.

    Preservation Application:
    Naturally Derived Product.
    Broad spectrum protection across pH range of 3.0-6.5, if pH depression occurs, the formulation can be adjusted with citrate or phosphate buffering systems.
    Geogard Ultra is fully compatible with a wide variety of formulation ingredients as well as most types of cationic, nonionic, and anionic systems.
    Geogard Ultra is soluble up to 4% in ambient water and can be dispersed in glycols and alkyl sulphates.
    Improves skin moisture content.
    Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) ingredients.
    Exceptional toxicity profile, long history of use, non-sensitizing and non-irritating.
    No Animal testing, non GMO.

    Recommended use level: is .75% - 2.0% of total formulation weight, for both rinse off and leave on formulations.

    Directions: Add to formulation at temps of up to 75°C (167°F) or lower.

    INCI: Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate.

    Issy
     
  18. hyperwarp

    hyperwarp New Member

    Thanks Issy !!! My Google search on : "preservitives that are "almost" natural" did not yield up Geogard !!!!
     
  19. IsaacRN

    IsaacRN Active Member

    You werent looking hard enought ;P
     
  20. michaelskar

    michaelskar New Member

    This might not be the best place for this question...but I saw rose hydrosol on one of the sites called rose water. I have also heard of soaking rose petals in water to produce "rose water." Since the two processes are obviously different (steam extraction versus soaking), what is the "soaking rose water" called (or, should a rose hydrosol not be called rose water)?

    Inquiring minds want to know...
     

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