Is it sharp enough?

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by ocharlas, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. ocharlas

    ocharlas Well-Known Member

    I just got my first straight honed and have shaved with it a couple times, but I'm not sure how sharp it actually is - or rather, how sharp it's supposed to be. It shaves, and I can get a DFS after a few passes, but it seems like I might be putting too much effort into it, and my whole neck winds up coming out of it looking pretty raw.

    Is there a standard test to the razor's sharpness?
     
  2. battle.munky

    battle.munky Has the menthol.munky on his back!

    Man, you asked a tough question. This is one of those, "which blade is best" type questions. I've read for days on trying to figure out how to test the sharpness of my str8s and am still as confused today as I was when I read it. Tons of people talk about the HHT (hangin hair test) and some others but everyone says none of the test should tell you by itself, but a combination of them. The shave should be telling you and it is kinda sounding like yours may not be shave ready dude.

    I know this isn't the best answer, but when I get mine back from Glen (or any other known and reputable honemeister) I know they are shave ready. I'm sure one of the more str8 minded folks can help better but my ignorance and general non-understanding of it isn't going to shed any more light.
     
  3. otherstar

    otherstar Rodney Dangerfield of TSD

    You sound like you are in the same boat as me. I haven't been using straights that long, but mine passes the HHT and I'm still somewhat raw in parts of the neck area. I had the same problem for the first several months I used a DE, so I am chalking it up to poor technique for now. I can get bbs on my cheeks with no irritation, but the neck area is so different that the learning curve is higher.
     
  4. newb

    newb Resident Newb

    The HHT is kind of a parlor trick (I can do a HHT off the 1k, but it is no where near ready to shave with). It really isn't an indication of sharpness. Being New to a str8 requires a big learning curve. If it was honed by a reputable pro, I would guess it's sharp enough. The sharpness test I use is. If I'm due for a head shave and have a few days growth. I shave the top and sides of my head with the str8. If it wipes away the hairs and doesn't tug, I've honed it properly. So, I guess a shave test is the way to check. It really takes a while to get consistent good shaves off of a straight. Maybe stick to 1 pass (or even just your cheeks) and finish up with a d/e for a couple of months, until you start to get the technique down. IMHO, learning to use a str8 is a skill that develops over time and it's best left unrushed.
     
  5. ocharlas

    ocharlas Well-Known Member

    Well I do know one thing, and that's that there is no way my razor can pull a HHT. The only reason that I really question its sharpness is that the place I got it honed at doesn't have much of a reputation, it was really more of a convenience thing for me as I was right there and he did it in a day. I guess it is possible that technique is playing a role here, but I will that say even with being new at straight shaving, I do feel pretty comfortable with the razor as I've been using a shavette for some time now and can get pretty spot-on shaves most of the time - close with little irritation. If it's any indication, my personna shavette loaded with a Voskhod requires much less elbow grease than my straight razor, even after a hundred or so laps on the strop. But again, blade freshness (the Voskhod will last at best 2-3 shaves in the shavette) is by far the biggest factor, so I'm thinking the same thing is probably the case with straight razors. My test in the shop when I picked it up was just to lightly run it across the back of my hand, and it did cut the hairs with ease, but I don't know if there's a difference in strength between hairs that are cut every day and those that are rarely or never cut.
     
  6. ocharlas

    ocharlas Well-Known Member

    and although I can achieve BBS with the shavette, I really can't with the straight...should be the opposite, no?
     
  7. newb

    newb Resident Newb

    How's your stropping technique? How long did you strop for? 100 laps is a lot. I dulled many a sharp blade in the beginning with poor stropping technique. A Shavette is a different beast from a straight. I'm not sure if a str8 can actually be as sharp as a d/e blade? Can you get a d/e blade to pass the HHT easily? There's lots of variables in str8 shaving that can effect the outcome. If your not sure if it was honed properly, you can always send it to one of the master's to get it honed, so that variable would be eliminated. I would guess that most all new str8 shavers thought that the blade wasn't sharp enough in the beginning. It's something I experienced, and I'm sure others did also. (note I also started with a shavette, I still use a Parker shavette in my rotation, I do understand where your coming from) Heck, send it off, have it properly honed, then you will at least know it's sharp enough. Hope this helps.
     
  8. Lavachild

    Lavachild Active Member

    I have been doing the straights for about a year now. I got my first blade and had it honed by Lynn. When I got it back I was able to pull off a shave, but I had a few nicks and cuts. I also had some pulling. I blamed the cuts on my inexperience, but the pulling I figured was the blade. Lynn is known for honing and so I was confused. Then came Stroping. As time went on, my blade was pulling less and less. One day I decided to go extra long and extra slow on my stroping. I made sure I did the best strop job I knew how. That shave was a whole new level of smooth and clean strokes. I knew right then the stroping was where I was not falling short. You would be amazed just what a diff that leather will do for your blade. Honing is important, but the strop gets the blade to its real shaving status that you need to get a good shave.
     
  9. otherstar

    otherstar Rodney Dangerfield of TSD

    I cannot argue with this. My main blade came from Larry at Whipped Dog and it was sharp, but I dulled it earlier than I should have due to poor stropping technique. Luckily, I was able to put a decent edge back on it after a few passes on a barber hone. After that I paid more attention to my stopping technique (while not ignoring everything else) and my shaves became smoother.
     
  10. ocharlas

    ocharlas Well-Known Member

    Just had straight shave number 2 (well 3 technically) - approached the stropping a little differently taking y'alls advice. Did fifty laps reeaal slow and careful, then did fifty more. real slow. and careful. Since my neck hadn't fully returned to it's natural shade yet I only did the face with the straight. Pretty much the same thing as yesterday. In the end I got a fairly close shave again with no nicks or cuts, but it took four passes, 2 WTG, 1 XTG, and 1 ATG. I noticed that the inside half of the blade is definitely sharper than the outside half. I'll keep doing what I'm doing, maybe in time either the edge will get better or I'll get better. I should be getting straight #2 soon, which is brand new and coming shave ready, so I'll have something to compare to.

    Lastly: Should I be using both sides (linen & leather) each time I strop? I usually just use the leather and use the linen maybe once every 2 or 3 times. But when I do use it the order is linen first either 25 or 50 laps, then leather 50 or 100. Is that correct?
     
  11. Lavachild

    Lavachild Active Member

    I find myself using both strops every time. I have been trying to get in to the habit of using just the leather because I hear that is what you should do. BTW that is a linen with green paste and a leather with nothing on it. I have had some fine shaves when I use leather only, but it just seems a bit more "crisp" then I use both.
     
  12. Sailinblues

    Sailinblues Well-Known Member

    If your linen is untreated a 25 linen / 50 leather is a good place to start. Once you gain some experience you'll be able to feel and hear the minute differences (changes) that occur during your stropping session. Slow and correct strokes are a lot better than fast and sloppy ones. I personally don't use any pasted strops, those that do should only have to use it when an edge starts to pull a little; maybe every 10-15 shaves or so depending on your stropping ability and shaving techniques. Good Luck!
     
  13. Lavachild

    Lavachild Active Member

    [... Once you gain some experience you'll be able to feel and hear the minute differences (changes) that occur during your stropping session. quote]

    Well this is new to me. hear the sounds of the strop? I can hear it sliding along the strop, but to hear the micro teeth that are being put back in to
    Alignment? You sire have super ears!
     
  14. Sailinblues

    Sailinblues Well-Known Member

    I'm not convinced that's what is happening, I've yet to experience these "microteeth" I just mentioned a subtle difference in feel and sound of the razor on the strop.
     
  15. oscar11

    oscar11 Well-Known Member

    Your shave is the ultimate test of sharpness. Pay attention to your technique, low blade angle and light pressure. If your not honing your own razors I'd consider looking into strops and various compounds for maintaining your edge.
     
  16. Pithor

    Pithor New Member

    I used to think so too. But try to do a HHT after 3k or 5k. The HHT for me now is definately an indication on (how) sharp an edge is that I honed myself. But I agree insofar that in the case of sellers on ebay mentioning "this razor passed the HHT" it is a marketing ploy. It just sounds tacky, and as you said, you can do a 'successful' HHT after setting the bevel, and it's not a pass/fail test.

    It 'passes' the HHT after bevel setting pretty much because of the bevel's teeth being very rough, catching on to the hair, whereas a smooth, polished edge which is so sharp i.e. narrow that it will catch the hair and cut or split it, in a variation of degrees. It doesn't mean you can't shave with a razor that doesn't 'pass' the HHT (which is really a wrong way of referring to it, it's not a 'pass' or 'fail' test, it's an indicator in the honing process of 'how sharp'), I have done that too, and it worked well enough.

    As I said above, on this count we agree. The shave and the shaver are the final trial and judge, with many mistrials along the way. Trial and error, so to speak, if you forgive my cheesy metaphors.

    In shaving there is not much that you "should do". Don't mistake many people's habits for an indispensable part of a succesful shave, but take advice, get ideas, try things out and see what works best for you. Stropping is one of those few things you "should do"; I tried to shave without it and it just doesn't work, at least not for very long. I use the fabric component (followed by leather) every time because (A) it cleans gunk off the blade, if there is any left and (B) I feel I get better shaves while doing so. I use about a 1:2 stropping ratio for fabric:leather.

    The reason why your edge feels more crisp after using both the pasted cotton and leather, is because the paste is mildly abbrasive (I think all are, although there are variations between brands as far as I can tell) and is, in a way, a continuation of the edge polishing process. I'd suggest trying an unpasted fabric component. Or continue with the past, if that's what you like best. But don't do stop doing something that works for you just because that is apparently "what you should do". That goes for everything else besides shaving, too.
     
    Williams Warrior likes this.
  17. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    This is an article I wrote on the HHT some time back, Maybe it will help some

    A Useful HHT:

    I am going to give a few pointers about the HHT from the one side that says "Parlor Trick" to the opposite camp of "HHT 1-5" ...

    In my personal experience I use a HHT, but not to determine shave readiness, I use it so that I know the edge is keen and ready to be shave tested, Only a shave test determines shave readiness...

    Personally I think any HHT before the final stropping is a waste of time, IME it isn't accurate, perhaps you can develop it into an accurate test, myself I think the other sharpness test at the lower levels work better...

    This has been repeated so many times it almost hurts my fingers to type it... The HHT is for use by the person that honed the blade, and that has developed an usable HHT, otherwise it is a JOKE!!!!
    For a person who just got a professionally honed blade, to type the words HHT and I can't get it to pass, is a waste of typing..

    The HHT has to be developed in reverse, if you are going to use it, after you have honed a shave ready edge, and have shave tested it, and absolutely KNOW it shaves... Then, and only then, do you start your journey to an HHT...
    Strop the edge like you are going to shave, and then start playing with the HHT, try the hair both directions, try a clean fresh hair, try an old one off the brush, try angles, try no angles, try pulling, try no pulling... once you get it to pop, then try the same edge, same technique, before stropping the edge, and see if it fails... A usable HHT fails at one point, and passes at another...
    This testing can take some time, and can be different on each blade, what you are striving for is a hair to pop that gives you information...That is a useful HHT.. BTW your own hair might not work at all, or work too easy, mine is that way, it pops at 1k and is useless as an indicator of anything...
    My wifes hair will not pop at all until I am done honing, and have done the final stropping, so hers tells me something... Hers tells me that the edge is keen, it does NOT tell me how that keen edge shaves or feels... Only the shave test tells me that...

    Another good way to start the HHT journey is to test the hair in the first place, take out a new DE blade and see what happens, this can give you a ton of nearly free info on how the hair you are using reacts to a sharp edge....

    I hope that clears some stuff up and helps a bit...

    I will add this for all those people that find it necessary to say this over and over, the HHT does not work for everybody, it does not have anything to do with a shaveable edge, it is simply a tool, just like the TNT, TPT, AHT, Only the shave test, works to test shave readiness..

    Yes you can have a perfectly good shaving edge, that YOU cannot get to pass an HHT, but I bet I can get it to pass, without doing anything other than stropping that edge...Because I have developed my HHT to work, and you haven't..

    Just like everything else involved with honing a razor, consistency is the key to using the HHT correctly...
     
    newb and Johnny like this.
  18. Howard

    Howard Active Member

    I took my TPE razor with me to the barber yesterday and he was blown away. He commented that the sound of the shaving was different from his normal replaceable blade straight razor, the shave was closer, and no nicks, cuts, or razor burn. A properly sharpened straight razor should not leave your neck raw.
     

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