I have been reading up on Nagura and Jnats the today. I particularly have been reading up on Asano koma Nagura. A very reputable source lastnight gave me a start with some knowledge. From what I gather the fine, fast quality koma is hard to come by, its either too soft/coarse or very hard and unworkable. I was told that 'some' not all of the vintage amano komo is to coarse and soft for razor honing. The new amano stuff is still being graded by Mr. Sakimoto, but unfortunately 'some' of it is not rich in grit and way stupid hard to generate a decent slurry without kicking up slurry from the base stone, and at times a diamond plate is needed to generate a slurry. The good Mikawa komo is hard to source. Just because it has a Asano stamp doesn't mean it will work with honing straights. The good from what I gather is not too hard nor to soft, but has the right balance to work with when using to hone straights I was reading on the WordPress blog about Nagura and it was said that Mr. Sakimoto recommended to soak Nagura for 30 minutes or so, so a larger chuck of the komo or what ever Nagura it is you are using will not get into the fine slurry, because that will damage the edge. I have read some people say if you soak it will turn to mush, but I guess that only depends on the hardness of Nagura . I was told the older komo was used on swords and some of it wasn't good for razors. I think I was reading on a stone called'Chu' and sometimes (unhonest vendors sell it off as Komo) but its way to coarse to be in the league with komo. I was reading something a few minutes ago about the tokkyu stamped koma and the betsu Jo koma, one is superior grade and I think the other is best grade?? Don't know what that means, but as far as a stamp and I don't really care what mine or what stamp it has on it. The only thing I care about is finding a good quality workable, fine ,and fast komo. I wound be interested to here what you guys have to say about the subject, I need all the info I can get.
All of the koma that I’ve ever had, vintage or modern, hard or soft, has been fast. Koma that they’re currently marketing that I’ve gotten is harder and finer than vintage koma. That doesn’t mean vintage koma is coarse, it means that softer koma is not as fine as harder koma, in general, just like jnat hones, in general. When I use koma in razor honing, I almost always use the vintage stuff - if I’m following up with a finisher, it doesn't matter whether it’s vintage or modern. Remember, if your finisher removes the scratch pattern of the stone before it, it doesn’t matter what the stone before is was. Alex Gilmore sent me a piece of modern Asano stamped koma that Sakimoto San gave him as a gift on his visit, and that stone was not hard, so I know some softer modern koma likely exists. All of the Asano-stamped koma that I have is fast, grit rich. It’s the others that are lacking in grit. I soak all my nagura, Mikawa and otherwise, for a few minutes at least, but rarely 30m. May be something to try. If you don’t wet the nagura and the hone, they’ll stick to each other and making slurry is a PITA, and the nagura is much more likely to tip. If it tips, it will scratch the hone. All the Mikawa nagura were originally used to polish swords/metal. I use vintage, non-Asano Mikawa nagura, and Odori when I use them. If the stone that follows any other stone removes the previous stone’s striae, it doesn’t matter what the previous stone was. Chu preceded koma in the sword polishing sequence. I have a piece of Chu that I got from CKTG a long time ago, I may dig it out and give it a new test. Chu is normally rated as a midgrit, 6k-ish maybe but I don’t really know. The Mikawa grading stamps are for appearance only, they have nothing to do with the quality of the stone.
Stamps don't mean that much to me at all. I'm in no hurry at all - when you meet up with Alex get me a 60-80g piece of that grit rich, fine (7-8k) that's not too hard not to soft that can be used with almost any jnat finisher that's not so finicky about how hard or soft the base stone is. Lol - don't want to have to get a diamond card to generate slurry from komo, or kick up base stone more than Komo. Is there such Komo that will work with any hard quality finisher?
If it tips over while you're rubbing it on the stone so that the corner is in contact with the stone it will scratch the hone.
LOL I actually had to go look and see if my "#4 Nagura" was also marked Koma I have a set #1-#4 hehehe Every now and then I actually use them I have gravitated to using a piece of Kita for my finishing slurry, I find the best part of using a J-Nat is that there are many recipes to the best edges, I have also found that one of the worst parts of explaining how to use a J-Nat is there are so many recipes to the best edges One of my favorite things to tell Honers that have progressed beyond just getting a good edge, and are beginning to experiment "Don't be afraid to use slurry on EVERY hone, there can be Magic in the Mud" Enjoy the journey, it isn't a race to the end
I think that a good jnat is about as good as it gets, maybe a good coti can equal it. One that’s hard enough to use Mikawa, fine, and fast is hard to equal really. The right jnat can make an edge from velvet squeegee to shavette sharp. You can find them that can go from 4-5k to finish in one slurry though they’re not that common. I’m getting the urge to drag out some of my Mikawa, I usually don’t use them that much simply because they’re slower than a synth progression. I have a couple of non-mikawa nagura, just fast tomo, that will easily do the same thing as koma, insanely fast but maybe not a finishing tomo. Good razor tomo are really harder to find than the hones. I think that stones that don’t have much grit in them are cut up and sold but they’re not that good really, I’ve tested a lot of ‘bought’ tomo with small razors or knives, and most just don’t cut that well, and the ones that do are not fine enough to really be considered razor grade. The best ones that I have were either bought as part of a used lot (someone was actually using it), ones that I cut myself from razor-grade stone, or ones that were given to me by friends. Jnats are very versatile with more ways to skin that cat than anything else, but they can also be very simple. Take a nice 8k edge and finish on thin tomo slurry and you’re done. You can stop at 5k and use a heavier diamond plate slurry followed by thin tomo slurry on many of them. Or you can use 4 Mikawa + tomo. You end up in the same place though, an edge with a scratch pattern created entirely by your finisher to make the face feel that you want. I’ve used slurry on everything but a Shapton Glass - those are fast enough by themselves on water!
+1 agree! Sharp and smooth - just like the edge you layed on my Ralf Aust!! Scratch pattern will fool you!! Pretty - doesn't always equal better when viewing an edge. My self I love the imprint a jnat leaves on the edge!! Pretty doesn't always equal better with other things - same with the ladies she can be a 10 out of 10 and a knockout, but she have a sour raging personality and be ugly to the bone. Lol I would rather have a 4-6 on the scale of good looks than have a 10 be ugly to the bone.
