I am going to ba packing when I get out of the military (joining a Posse unit). So far I have fired a... Glock 22. Sig P226 M9 (Beretta 96) M1911A1 Any others I should try out? Something affordable would be nice.
Sorry, no help....but what's a Posse unit? Weren't you the one on the other board looking at Maricopa Co. Sheriffs or something? What ever happened with that? And btw...sorry about dumping in your thread over there causing me to get myself banned :ashamed001 At least I think it was your thread...don't remember a whole lot about that night :ashamed001 :sick007 drunk typing is as bad as drunk dialing apparently... Not one of my prouder moments, that's fo' sho'.
Well as long as you are sorry. :happy102 Looks like I am getting in with the Arizona Dept. of Corrections. A Posse is a unit of sworn volunteer officers for a Sheriffs Office. I am putting in for Pinal County.
Congrats...I knew Sheriff Joe had brought back the chain gangs and all, but I thought a posse was a thing of the past....cool. Good luck to you - I loved my time in Arizona (stationed at Luke AFB in Phoenix) and when I retire from the FD here in 10, I'll be back out there hopefully the very next day
Lately I have purchased a few Springfield XD polymer pistols and love them. I purchased a 4" service model and a 3" subcompact. the subcompact is my new daily conceal carry and the 4" I use for a sidearm while hunting pigs and other game. At the gun shows you can get them for around 400. I also purchased a heavily modified mini 14 (.223) with a custom barrel stabilizer, tigger job. That sucker is nice and shoots very tight groups at 100 yards. It aint cheap to use though as the rifle rounds are expensive since they are the military round. total cost on this one was around 1100. I used this a few weeks ago hog hunting and worked great. Bagged 15 pigs in 2 days with it. I also finished up a SKS (7.62 x 39) that I cleaned up and put a new composite stock on it. its fun to shoot and is cheaper to buy the ammo than .223 rounds. total cost was about 250 for the rifle in stock form and about another hundred for the new stock, bipod, and other small odds.
I have a Springfield XD40 subcompact. Handles nice, accurate as can be and a joy to shot. Guess that means I like it.
If you liked the Sig, the Sig P250 in 9mm is nice. It's a modular pistol available in several calibers and sizes, mix-and-match style. If you want a cheap gun with a lifetime warranty that's not going to jam up on you, it's hard to beat a $150 Hi-Point. Granted, they're ugly little beasts (actually, none too little, their other main problem). But bulky and ugly, they're cheap and effective, which, under the right circumstances, makes up for it.
Will, where I work in Ohio we carry the Sig P226 in 40 cal. They're good guns, but not cheap. A Glock is probably going to be the least expensive, and you might even be able to find one used at a local gun store. There are also some very nice .40 cal pistols made by S&W and Walther with a polymer frame. The Springfield XD is also nice, as is the H&K USP, which would be my first choice. Whatever brand you choose, S&W, Walther, H&K, Colt, Beretta, etc. I'd get one in the same caliber the road deputies in the area carry. It seems that .40 S&W is the go-to round these days, and I would tend to stick with that. Oh, and at all costs, please avoid the cheap pistol brands (Hi-Point, Taurus, Ruger, anything Czech or Russian) as your life is worth more than these guns. I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here, so there is no offense intended, but in my 12 years as a law enforcement officer, I have seen enough failures from the above bold typed gun brands to know I would never, EVER, have one of them for duty use. Just my humble opinion, so once again, I'm not trying to insult somebody's choice in a gun if that is all they can afford. I just wouldn't trust them to the rigors a duty gun is put through. My Sig P226 has seen well over 10,000 rounds, and it is still in perfect working order.
Add the Springfiled XD (relatively cheap) and the H&K USP's (more expensive) to your test drive list! Here is my response to this same question in another forum: First, I'd like to say... Welcome to my world. 14 years as a Police Officer and for the last 10 of those I've been gunsmithing and working as a firearms instructor/range master (Combat Arms, USAF). There is some pretty solid advice in this thread. However, I'm going to offer you the most important bit of advice in this thread... DON'T BUY A GUN BASED ON ANYTHING WE TELL YOU!!! You have to decide for yourself what your needs are, what your shooting ability is, what your price range is, what your ultimate goal is, and what feels best when you fire it. What weapon(s) are you most confident/comfortable with? Which are you the most accurate with? Normally the first thing I recommend to anyone is to take a safety/marksmanship class. Take more than one if possible. Take adequate time to get familiar with different types of firearms. You wouldn’t buy a car you didn’t test drive would you? Since you are military you may not need any safety class, but some serious range time with different models would be a great idea. The "old man" argument (as I call it) about Revolvers being superior to Semi-Autos is a few decades outdated. Quality Semi-Autos are every bit as reliable as revolvers. There is a reason that 99% of Law Enforcement and Military agencies require semi-autos. They offer greater capacity, less felt recoil in respective calibers and modern guns are every bit as reliable. 99.999999% of all stoppages or "malfunctions" with autos are caused by the shooter, not by a defect, malfunction or breakage of the weapon. That said, what you buy depends on your level of interest and the amount of time you are willing to dedicate to learning the art of SAFE shooting (with the weapon(s) you choose. Since you are going to move into a Law Enforcement role I don't see this being a difficult area. I'm sure you will get plenty of range time with whatever you buy. If you want nothing more than a gun you can pick up in a panic and rapidly blow through all 5 or 6 rounds without having to think a revolver may be the right choice. Just keep in mind that the higher the caliber you will have to deal with more discomfort and felt recoil which often translates to missed shots. Don't get me wrong my wife easily shoots my .357 magnum and even my .44 magnum, but she has had a ton of practice. When asked she would rather shoot one of my 1911's than any of my revolvers. Despite the fact that they are .45 cal the action and weight of the weapon make it easier for her to shoot. It is true with a revolver all you have to do is point, pray and squeeze. However you often sacrifice things like comfort, felt recoil and load capacity (again no jokes) I carry an H&K USP .45 off duty (concealed carry permit) and I wouldn't be caught carrying anything less than a .40 caliber. (The one exception to that would be a .357 magnum revolver). But that's not to say that H&K, a .45 caliber, or even a .357 revolver are the right choices for you. I think the question of Revolver vs. Semi-Auto can only be answered by you, but most Law Enforcement roles are going to have capacity requirements. You need to consider several factors when purchasing a handgun and believe it or not there are many more than people often think of. If you are going to have a single handgun for self defense/duty there are many factors. Are you married? Might your wife/girlfriend/significant other ever need to use your weapon. Men and women have very different wants/needs when it comes to handguns (like so many things ). For example, you may shoot a .357 revolver and love it, but with smaller/weaker (not being sexist) wrists your significant other may actually be in pain after only a few rounds. Likewise you may find that a .40 or .45 semi-auto is a great gun but it may be too big for her hands or she may not like the felt recoil. The 9mm gained a lot of popularity because it is an in between round (and the US Military/Government contract in the early 90's didn't hurt either). It isn’t as powerful as a .40 or .45 but offers greater velocity and capacity (in a semi-auto) than a lot of revolver loads for examply. I see petite women on the range daily who qualify expert with the M9. However, 9mm is notorious for over penetration. A round that goes straight through your target will lack stopping power (unless you hit vital organs etc.). A 9mm will also go through wall after wall after wall in your home if you miss your target. Another big factor is ergonomics. Someone on here may tell you that the Glock 17 and 19 are great guns (again I wouldn't carry a 9mm for personal/home defense) but you may discover that the grip is terribly uncomfortable. I like both the 19 and 17 but to me they are relegated to target guns. Double stack magazines vs. single stack magazines make a big difference as well. People with small hands tend to have more trouble with a double stack magazine as it is simply too large for their hands. This can lend to more problems such as a loss of accuracy, or slower follow up shots because the shooter has to adjust in between recoil. All of these things are reasons why I say you can't buy Brand "A" because your buddy Joey told you to or Brand "B" because a magazine said it is the Ferrari of handguns and so on. You have to take the time to shoot several different types/calibers, see how they feel, see how accurate you are, and see how easy they operate. Also, if you are going to consider a semi-auto think about how it shoots. What I mean is, does it have an external hammer, a spur less hammer or is it a spring driven firing pin system like the Glocks or Sprinfield XD's. Personally I prefer a hammer. A gun with a hammer, whether it is spur less or standard external is far less likely to accidentally discharge. It has to be cocked (either manually or as part of the trigger pressing action. Also, do you want the ability to safely de-cock your weapon? Let’s say that for some reason you discover that your loaded pistol is cocked (hammer back ready to fire). If you have a de-cocker all you do is press the de-cocking lever and the hammer falls safely without firing. If you don't have a de-cocker (like a 1911 for example) you have to ride the hammer forward which opens the door to human error. What if your thumb slips and the hammer falls, *BANG* what or who did you accidentally just shoot? There are "big dog's" in the gun market that get high marks in the shooting community: Glock Sig-Sauer H&K Smith and Wesson (for revolvers) Springfield Just to name a few I suggest sticking with a known brand, don't buy something like LLama, Astra, Star or even to a much lesser extent a Taurus (some models are great others are not) to name a few. Guns are like cars, you are going to get what you pay for (for the most part). Beretta and Springfield will run you less coin than a Sig or H&K. PM me anytime if you have questions about any particular guns or shooting techniques or even firearms safety in the home. I'm very passionate about quality firearms, quality marksmanship and safety in the home. P.S. Don't let this intimidate you. I just think far too many people by a Glock because it was in a movie or a Beretta because their Army buddy (or experiences) recommended it. What works for one shooter may not work for another. Take your time, do your homework and test drive several different types of pistols before you buy! I am a fan of the H&K USP series. They have an external hammer and a decocking/safety lever. 10 years of teaching the Beretta M9 and I've grown comfortable with those features. I think there is added value to a hammer driven firing pin system and the ability to decock. The H&K is great for both but weighs half what a Beretta does. The H&K is without a doubt a better handgun IMHO. But ultimately the choice is yours and should be as educated on your options as possible.
S&W M&P 45 I primarily shot 1911's for the vast majority of my shooting career, and recently purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P (Military and Police) 45. I am VERY impressed with the way it handles, the way it points, and the way it is constructed. I would suggest that you shoot one of these, I think that you will be impressed, however, Slaglerock is correct, we can offer advice, and anecdotal information, but shoot them for yourself! Good Luck!
SlagleRock Nailed It !!! Lots of good advice in this thread, but... SlagleRock has accurately pointed out the critical points to consider when evaluating the appropriate handgun to select. Having been an avid shooter/competitor for all of my adult life, his comments are most likely the best summary of precautionary statements and sage advice I have ever read, given the constraints of brevity and understandability for the layman. VERY well done, SR and best wishes to Will for making the best personal choice and then never having to use it! --Morrie
Obviously you have a bit more "gun experience" than I do, but it's funny. I've only ever had one jam with a Hi-Point, and that was with cheap Russian ammo that wouldn't feed properly in my Sig either. Taurus, I agree, are crap, and I've seen a jam almost every time I've shot one. I do agree, though, that you should get the best gun you can afford for defensive use: hence my lovely P250. *grin*
I have seen the same thing happen to me to.. cheap ammo is definitely something I avoid after a few mishaps I have. Wolf ammo no matter what gun I feed it in usually results in a jam, or the slide doesnt get kicked back all the way to feed a new round or lock the slide in place after the last round.
I think you'd be better served with a lever action 30-30 and a scabbard you can easily attach to a horse. That's the way we posse around these parts.
Now that you're at a point where you can't make up your mind, I'll offer the best advice: Easy to conceal (holster, pocket, handbag): Glock 26 Fewer moving part: Glock 26 More reliable: Glock 26 Best personal defense ammo: Winchester Ranger T (RA9T) Best conceal carry holster: High Noon IWB Hidden Ally Other than this, all you need is practice, practice practice. Good luck
Props to my Sig, it's never choked on the rattiest boxen of $5 Wolf 9mm from the gun show! Makes for great plinking, being able to eat crap like that . . .
djwurm, where are you from? There aren't too many states that you can carry a conceiled weapon these days.
Hmmmm? Only Wisconson and Illinois ban it. Granted, it's difficult to get a CCW in some states, but 37 states are "shall-issue" (meaning that permits must be granted to qualified -- i.e. of-age, non-felon -- applicants without governmental discretionary authority).
Interesting. In New York where I'm from, you can get a permit to carry a conceiled weapon, but gooooood luck actually getting one. You need to have one hell of a good reason to actually get the permit in NY.
