pretty interesting honing affect

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by thesuperiorshave, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. thesuperiorshave

    thesuperiorshave Active Member

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This razor (which has no maker's marks anywhere on the steel or scale, but which does hone to a proper edge) didn't have these marks I've highlighted when I got it a couple of hours ago and put to convex stone.

    So the giant-diameter arc imparted by the first stone [soft ark] had to do some cutting in to the razor's concavity to get to the point where it could carve in to the bevel plane a complete version of its slightly curved and more acute-tipped arc from within the incumbent more-obtuse-tipped line.

    On an old razor that's well worn and using a flat whetstone, you might encounter something like this, but you'd just have some honing marks above the bevel plane and the bevel plane's edge itself would not be making contact. Then you'd apply tape to the spine (increasing the bevel angle) until you got the (taped)spine and the new (closer to spine) edge line paired such that both were flush to your stone without any metal in between them preventing that.

    Fascinating to me, I have never seen this before!
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  2. DaltonGang

    DaltonGang Ol' Itchy Whiskers


    Could the slurry be causing this??
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  3. thesuperiorshave

    thesuperiorshave Active Member

    no, I don't think slurry could make those lines with that kind of uniformity of direction
    also it is a soft Arkansas stone used with oil (hardly any build-up occurs and that which does does not have cutting action potency)
    it is the honing plane ever so slightly cutting in to the steel that's just too close
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  4. SparrowPoint

    SparrowPoint Active Member

    Could there be some irregularities in the convexity or your honing direction where the stone comes in contact behind the edge during the stroke?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. thesuperiorshave

    thesuperiorshave Active Member

    My stones are 100% sphere, no ellipse, so it doesn't matter how I'm moving about on them. Or at least that's the shape of the Arks I use all the time. Those marks I believe to be from like a giant-diameter wheel cutting in to the thickness of the razor near the bevel plane.

    I wish during the bevel-setting I'd paid attention to see which occurred first, the flattening and widening of the bevel plane's appearance or those faint marks just beyond...I definitely did not notice them until the very end.

    The razor did have a lot of damage on the cutting edge and needed significant time on the soft Ark and those things when convexed are very fast stones indeed.

    I do have 2 coticules that I shaped to be ellipse, just like they do in Solingen, because a grinder there told me that the ellipse is better than the sphere because they can address with more intensity (by varying the angle of attack along the honing plane) worn/warped/etc. razors, the sphere 'keeps a healthy razor healthy but can't correct a really bad one' or something like that was what they said (sorry, this conversation was from 2017 and by translator). It is true, you can really remove steel in a hurry on a soft old slow coticule when it is an ellipse and you change your angle of attack. But the stones wear fast and require constant fussing with the shaping.

    Suffice it to say that producing an elliptical shape by hand is every bit as hard as their chortling responses made it seem when I'd asked how it is achieved, and I don't have any confidence in their reproduction.
    I would absolutely love to get a really large-diameter cylinder (I just need a tiny slice of such a cylinder shape, actually) to use as a backer for sandpaper, then I can make the sphere shape and thereafter move the sphere-d stone in a specific direction along the cylinder-backed sandpaper until that second circular shape begins to impart along the hone's shorter axis.

    If anyone has an idea for how to get access to an inexpensive cylinder or piece of such that would have a diameter 24"+ and at least 10" deep, I am all ears.
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  6. SparrowPoint

    SparrowPoint Active Member

    If the razor was in poor shape it might have been restored. Uneven spine wear, bread knifing etc could cause you to be hitting the belly of the blade in some areas where it was not buffed or sanded down.

    Forming an ellipse on the stone would involve a lot of hand work. I wish you well on that one. You may be able to to it with two concave surfaces. One used perpendicular to the other in succession. Forming those two surfaces would be a lot of work in itself unless you have a granite or rock shed nearby that will do piece work.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  7. Steve56

    Steve56 Well-Known Member

    D4517B98-F091-4B01-BCE3-C3DBEE36507F.jpeg

    Couple of observations, the scratches appear to be straight but you mention an arcing stroke. Do you believe the scratches are consistent with an arcing stroke? Could be, they’re short so maybe you can’t see the curve.

    A lot of times beginners put too much pressure on a hollow and the blade flexes and lets the stone ride up above the bevel, but these don’t look like those and this isn’t the kind of mistake an experienced honer makes.

    The closest thing that I’ve seen to those marks is on Gen 2 Filly 14s that have supposedly been thinned near the bevel. The image above isn’t the best image in the world, but you can see an area with similar coarser straight ‘scratches’ above the bevel, especially up at the toe where the light was better. Is it possible that they were there all along, razor was re-ground?
     
    Edison Carter likes this.
  8. Steve56

    Steve56 Well-Known Member

    DF2525C4-C440-4596-9094-3B783CE99811.jpeg

    Another image, same razor. You can see where the coarser marks begin near the bevel, and they’re coarser than the finish of the rest of the razor. Other than the coarser finish, it’s well done. It’s evenly ground and the razor shaves, well, like a Filly 14 should.
     
    Edison Carter likes this.

Share This Page