So, I have noticed something about my strop

Discussion in 'Straight Razors' started by Reformation Student, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    I have a Tony Miller 3" red latigo strop. I also have a kangaroo strop. When I take my Dovo full hollow grind razor to the roo strop, I get a very subtle shh,shh,shh sound when stropping. When I use the same razor on my TM latigo strop, I get more of a higher pitch scratchy sound. Both strops produce I nice edge so I think it must have something to do with the material and maybe width of the strop, but more the material.

    Also, when I strop my Wapi on the TM strop I do get that subtle shh,shh,shh sound. The Wapi being not full hollow.

    Also, the TM strop has absolutely no draw to it what so ever, which seems odd since I thought the red latigo was supposed to have a decent draw.

    Any thought on what would make the sound difference between strops using my Dovo razor? This is purely a question of curiosity since I get a perfectly fine edge using the TM strop. I just have an inquiring mind. :D
     
  2. gssixgun

    gssixgun At this point in time...

    Supporting Vendor
    Only four things I can think of effect the sound of stropping...

    The grind of the razor

    The physics of the strop ie; leather/draw/finish/width/thickness/material

    Lifting the spine

    And the very, very, subtle change in sound, as the razor takes the finest edge

    Sorry that's all I have for ya...
     
  3. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    I've noticed the sound change as the razor gets stropped to a finer edge as well. It's been one of the ways I know when I'm done stropping (as opposed to just counting strokes).
     
  4. LRD_III

    LRD_III Member

    I think Glen is right on target. However, I had a TM once in latigo and it had draw galore, meanign more than any other strop I have owned. MIne was bought second had, but it had been maintained by an experienced user. You might want to check with Tony to make sure you are caring for it properly. I don't want to mak assumption, but if it has such poor draw, the leather may be drying out. Tony is not making many strops now so what you have is a true heirloom worthy item. I would take extra good care of it or make sure I am handling it right if I were you. Just a simple minded opinion.
    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    I've asked Tony about caring for it and he's told me it's pretty self maintaining. I used to put the leather conditioner he provided when you purchase a strop but he said the strop shouldn't ever need it. You're right about it being an heirloom worthy item. Maybe I'll drop him a line.

    Out of curiosity, do you know what your strop's previous owner did to maintain it?
     
  6. AxelH

    AxelH New Member

    Yeah, uh, that's really odd to experience from a TM latigo strop. I get a lot of draw on mine. Even though I've only stropped on a smooth leather and a latigo (both TMs) I'd say the difference is huge.
     
  7. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Well, now I'm thinking I need to "repair" my strop somehow. Thanks for letting me know about your strop's draw. I will have to check into this now.
     
  8. Crankymoose

    Crankymoose Member

    I got a TM red latigo also and it has decent draw as well, when you say yours has no draw at all what are you comparing it too? I have never used a Roo strop so don't know what kind of draw it has so I can't compare it to that.

    I have about 10 strops including horsehide, cordovan honey brown leather, a Kanayama strop and a few others for comparison and I rate the TM red latigo draw as definitely decent but not heavy, with horsehide being the strop with almost no draw at all.
     
  9. sffone

    sffone Member

    Steve, when you say the TM has no draw, is that with all your razors or just with the Dovo? And you say that the TM produces a nice edge on all your blades just as the roo does, so I'm thinking that the TM is producing more draw than you may realize wilth the full hollow. Personally, the only time I had a latigo strop that produced no draw was when I was experimenting with one that I had made, and I over-treated it with neatsfoot oil.
     
  10. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    I compare the latigo draw to the following:

    TM practice strop that came with the latigo. Natural color, but not sure of what it was made of

    Roo strop which has amazing draw on any razor I've used it on.

    The latigo produces no discernible draw either with my grandfather's old full hollow, my Dovo full hollow or the Wapi or some of the other full hollows that I bought at antique stores. (I don't use those or my grandfathers except for a week just to test them after sharpening them. I used them for a week and put them away again. All I use now is my Wapi and Dovo.)

    If the latigo is producing draw on my full hollows, I certainly can't feel it as I can with the other strops I've used.

    Funny, this post wasn't originally concerned with the draw since I get fine edges. I was curious as to sound differences but you guys aren't the only ones I've heard saying a latigo has decent draw so now I'm really wondering if I have been doing something wrong with my strop.

    Here's what I have done over the past 3 years:

    Periodically, I have put the leather conditioner that Tony sent with the strop though he has always told me it shouldn't be needed. When I say periodically, I mean probably no more than about 6 times in 3 years.

    I've also cleaned the strop with lather twice in the past year because it was getting dirty and I heard that old barbers used to clean and condition their strops with lather so I experimented with it. It cleaned up nicely but I don't see any advantages to using it over the leather conditioner.

    Thanks for all the input, gang. It's appreciated greatly.
     
  11. LRD_III

    LRD_III Member

    To my knowledge he religiously hand rubbed it and used a small amount of neatsfoot oil maybe once every 1-2 months. When I bought the strop it was supposedly about 2 years old. The leather is self maintaining I am sure and obviously Tony knows more about strops than probably anyone. Go with what he tells you. I have used small amounts of neatsfoot on my other strops and so long as you use a light amount it really works well. The hand rubbing though is probably the best thing, but again you need expert advice.
     
  12. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Hand rubbing is the one thing I haven't done consistently to it. Do you still do that to the strop now?
     
  13. Jimbo

    Jimbo New Member

    Hand rubbing is the gold-standard for daily strop care IMO! Just make sure that when you do it your hands have oils in them - so do not do it straight after washing them or having a shower.

    Steve, I cannot speak to the Tony Miller strop, but I do know that over time the Roo develops a little more draw than it originally came with. Also, as you are stropping and the edge gets closer to ready, you should notice on it a reasonably marked increase in the draw, followed, as Glen says, by a change in sound (although the sound change is less on the Roo than on other strops, I have noticed).

    The only thing I will say is that I have noticed that when I go back to a cow or horse hide strop after using my Roo strop for any period of time, I often feel they do not have enough draw in comparison. But you may find, if you start hand rubbing before each stropping session, that this changes or improves over time.

    James.
     
  14. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Yes, the roo strop has developed more draw. I thought maybe that was my imagination so I'm glad to read you confirm this.

    On the few occasions when I did a hand-rubbing on the strop, I would do it before I jumped in the shower. I stopped doing it because I never noticed any difference between hand rubbing and not rubbing but perhaps I have drier skin than most.

    I agree with the change in sound, too. In fact, I pretty much have stopped counting strokes on the leather and rely on the change in sound, which I can hear on the latigo but not so much on the roo so I do count strokes on my roo strop.

    I just treated the latigo with some of the conditioner that Tony supplied with the strop and I will start hand rubbing daily for a while and see if the draw increases. I've also emailed Tony to get his opinion.

    Something else I wondered about is if keeping the strop in the bathroom effects anything due to the humidity when showering.

    I guess the real question is why I use the TM strop when that roo is hanging right next to it :D I guess I just like having the variety. That or a sense of filial duty since my mom bought me the TM strop as a gift when I first started this hobby.

    Thanks for the input, my friend. It's always nice to get your opinion on things.
     
  15. LRD_III

    LRD_III Member

    I can't say I hand rub all my strops every day, but I try to rub the one i amusing that day. I ended up selling the Tony Miller strop to a friend, big mistake. I do not keep strops in the bathroom, but I am not sure if that helps or not.
     
  16. 8thsinner

    8thsinner New Member

    As a leather worker who favours roo, I can tell you a little bit about it.
    THe fibres in kangaroo lay in a much straighter line than any other leather, This makes it extremely dense by comparison and extremely strong.
    The high density finer fibres would I would imagine produce a nicer finer polish.
    Horse hide is probably the next most dense leather.
     
  17. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    Thanks for that information. It's great to learn more about one of my favorite strops. I remember James saying something similar about the fibers and was amazed at how thin the strop was but how incredibly strong it was when I pulled it taught. One could certainly see the benefits of the high density of fibers.
     
  18. Reformation Student

    Reformation Student New Member

    An update on the draw

    So a couple of days ago I applied a couple of applications of the leather conditioner to the strop and the next day - no difference in draw. The day after, I came home and hand rubbed the strop and stropped my razor and noticed an increase in the draw. Later that night, I hand rubbed the strop again, showered, applied lather to my face and stropped the razor: no draw :confused:

    So, last night, I changed things up a bit. I hand rubbed the strop AND stropped the razor before showering. I also stropped a bit more slowly. I noticed what I would consider a medium-light draw on the razor.

    I will continue with the hand rubbing and stropping before the shower because I'm now wondering if the humidity from the shower is having an effect on the amount of draw the strop produces.

    Interestingly, the increase in draw did not produce an increase in the quality of the stropped edge so I also wonder if draw is all that necessary for a good, keen edge.

    Seems I've still much to learn about strops and the little grey cells are becoming active again :D
     
  19. ShavedZombie

    ShavedZombie Member

    A few things - Depending on what lather you used on the strop, that may be the cause of the low draw... Certain lathers, when rubbed into the strop, give it almost no draw (TOBS for instance, when applied to a medium draw leather reduces the draw big time.)

    As for hand-rubbing. That only increases draw for the duration of stropping IMMEDIATELY after the hand-rubbing. Not for a sustained period of time.

    My advice is to sand your strop from 200 grit to 1500. Sand it thoroughly with the 200, to get rid of all the lather and treatment residue. When all you have left is plain red latigo, go at it with the 400, 800, 1000 and 1500 progressively. Then give it a thorough (1-3 minutes) rubbing with a glass bottle, then the same with your palm.

    After that, the draw should be light-medium.

    No more treating the leather with anything but your palm unless there are unique circumstances.

    Cheers,
    Jeremy
     
  20. ShavedZombie

    ShavedZombie Member

    Also, Relative to Kangaroo, Latigo should have about 10-20% more draw if you don't palm rub it, and 30% if you palm rub both.

    Rough numbers though...so take that with a grain of personal experience/YMMV
     

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