Tallow vs. Glycerin and Vegetable Based Soaps

So when I started wet shaving, I started with a couple of artisan soaps that weren't on anyone's radar. Dirty Deeds and The Holy Black. Dirty Deeds' soap vegetable based with clay added, and The Holy Black was a glycerin based soap. I remember reading over and over again, how glycerin soaps were just melt and pour soaps, with fragrance added, and how only tallow soaps produced lather with a good cushion and slickness.

My experience has been that a good soap is a good soap, and a bad soap is a bad soap. I have used quite a few different artisan formulations, and the lather is what makes it work or not for shaving. I think lather is based on the soap formulation, rather than the base. As I understand it, tallow, glycerin, or certain oils are used as a saponifed agent to make the lather thicker and longer lasting. Chemically, they do the same job. There are quite a few soap makers who make a glycerin soap that is not melt and pour, but is made from beginning to end, in either a hot or cold process.

I recently ordered some Mama Bear Soaps, which are glycerin. I also have several flavors of Route 66 soaps, which are a vegetable based soap (with the exception of lanolin.) On the other side of the spectrum, I have Jeeves of Hudson Street, where the owner renders his own tallow for the soap making process. All three of these easily make an amazing lather with lots of cushion and slickness. The post shave feel on all three is amazing.

My question is, why are glycerin and non-tallow based soaps not viewed as favorably as tallow based? On almost every thread where someone asks for a soap recommendation, more than one person says to get a tallow based soap. When people recommend against a glycerin soap, I always want to ask them which ones they have tried, or if they are just repeating what is said on forums and FB groups over and over again. Thoughts?

 

Glycerin is not a soap base, it's a by product or additive. I don't think mamabear soaps are glycerin because as best I can tell glycerin doesn't lather...although they may contain it, they are based on some type of oil, i.e. palm/coconut. I have no problem recommending veggie soaps I have many of them that I love and perform just wonderfully. I think they are simpler to lather.

 

Tallow, glycerin, vegetable, whatever - if I like the smell, and if it lathers well, and if it performs well, I don't care.

 

I may have the terms wrong. I have always referred to them as a glycerin based soap if they were somewhat clear soaps, rather than white. Mama Bear refers to them as Glycerin shaving soaps on her website, but mentions adding 20% more glycerin. I do know that they lather like crazy. The Holy Black also used to make a glycerin soap that performed similarly.

 

You are correct though that there does seem to be a big bias towards tallow soaps. Maybe because it's old school or more manly sounding. The lather does seem richer to me, but I'll take either one of it works and smells good.

 

Truer word has never been spoken and I often wonder the same thing myself since I often see people singing endless praise for tallow soaps while bashing vegetable based alternatives. When I was new to this, I mistakenly ordered some tallow soaps and I did not notice any difference whatsoever. I even have a veggie soap and a tallow soap from the same vendor and apart from the scents, even the most sensitive face or the most meticulous lather creator would not be able to tell them apart in a blind test.

This is strictly my opinion but I think that this is just a psychological phenomenon. It is exactly as you said: "...a good soap is a good soap, and a bad soap is a bad soap." It doesn't matter whether or not the soap uses tallow because it is not some magical ingredient that inherently makes a soap superior to vegetable based alternatives. Almost all of my soaps are vegetable based and they have all performed exceptionally well. I have also experimented with the different formulas like Mama Bear's soaps and I found that they lathered and performed just as well. I don't plan on ever intentionally ordering a tallow based soap ever again because there's simply no need, and I also don't really care for lanolin in my soap. Unfortunately some artisans don't offer alternatives - B&M discontinued their vegan line of soaps since they apparently didn't sell as well as their tallow soaps, and I think that's a real shame.

 

It all makes one wonder how people ever managed to get lather and shave in the days before all the soapmakers listed all their ingredients on the package...

Executive summary: It's soap. You wet it, you rub it into your whiskers, and then you shave with it. All the rest is hairsplitting details.

 

Ingredients label from 1880:

Fat, Lye.

 

I'm a closet soaper. I rarely use animal fats in my formulas. Not because of any real problem with its use; they're just a hassle to procure. As for shave soaps? I blame the tallow prejudice on the internet. Half of my "keepers" in the den are veg fat only and are terrific. I've yet to find one of those translucent soaps that I've liked.

 

I am a tallow man.

 

Can I ask why?

 

I think some people are just "tallow heads"....I also think if you love tallow and are giving your 2 cents about a soap, you will always say tallow...that is probably true for all aspect though...

the best soap I have/use, is SV which is vegtable base....and I think you are bang on @Drygulch about ALL soaps, they are either good or bad and that is across all types of soaps.

 

I have found great tallow and veggie soaps but I have yet to find a 'glycerin' soap that works. In general I find the difference between good tallow and good veggie soaps are aftershave feel and the ability to perform under high heat.... but even then there are exceptions.

 

I like the history of it. I think the post shave is superior. The texture of the lather is creamier. Just to name a few reasons.

 

I lean towards tallow soap because I like the way my skin feels afterwards. Beyond that, I don't really see much of a difference between them. Good is good and bad is bad!

 

In my thoughts I have not found a soap that gives any sickness ok my face once my initial pass with my straight,so all his bragging that this soap or that soap has a lot of sickness is lost on my face.

 

I concur, and my answer is exactly the same.

 

This is an interesting thread, as I have started to come to the same conclusion as Adam. I used to have a strong preference towards tallow soaps, but using Route 66 and Stubble Trubble soaps a fair amount recently has changed my opinion. I can't tell the difference between these soaps and some of the best tallow soaps I have, and they out perform many of the tallow soaps, in my opinion. I also recently just tried my first Mama Bear soap, and it is a good soap. I too had also thought of glycerin soaps as inferior, but while I don't think it is the best soap I have, it is far from the worst.

I will say the one thing that seems to differentiate is Lanolin. MWF and Stirling sheep soaps do seem to have a different post shave feel than many of the other soaps I have tried. My wife is even becoming a big fan of the Stirling sheep bath soaps for the same reason.

 

I add liquid lanolin to my veggie soaps if the don't have it.

 

I've tried almost 60 different soaps, and most of them work fine. I will say that my top soaps all have tallow and/or lanolin though. I have extremely thick hair and I tend to buff as I go. I find the tallow and lanolin soaps provide better residual slickness than the others. I also prefer the post shave feel. The heavy glycerin soaps tend to make my skin feel tacky, and the heavy oil based soaps leave my skin feeling...oily.

My top soaps, for reference
-Stirling
-Mystic Water
-Route 66
-WSP Formula T
-The Soap Exchange

As far as the bias, I think that's mainly a handful of elitists from a particular forum that I no longer participate in.