Soap breaks the watertension, the fluid crawls easier on the blade making it easier to read the feedback. And the fluidfilm between the steel and stone also breaks easier. Less lubrication will change the honing a bit. I have the 8, 12 and 15 k , I use them with the slurrystones. The dt on slurry picks up from a good bevelsetter, then to water, that is a rather raw shave. To the 12 k and diluting to water makes for a verry soft but not the sharpest edge, a short time on the 15 k ads sharpness. To much 15 k turns crisp into agressive. Oil gives the crispest result on all three stones, on the 15k it becomes very magressive. Soap (dish) is inbetween water and soap.
So after setting a bevel, you move right into using a slurry on the DT Stone? Is this a slow process? Seems like a big jump in “grits”. Very interesting.
Without slurry on the dragon tongue it would take a verry long time, with slurry its ok for me. Its not a race. Also, i have no real fixed schedule. I like variation. Sometimes i take 1,2 and 5k, sometimes the bbw site of a coticule or the coticule itself, ,... I just have to much hones
As suggested by @Arnout I tried using the dragons tongue stone with slurry. This razor didn’t need much to get it back in order. I made a heavy slurry then started to hone. I honed until it could feel the blade wanting to stick to the stone. then I would dilute the slurry, buy adding more water, and honed until the blade wanted to stick. I did this 4 times. By the 4th time there was almost no slurry left on the stone. I could never get the blade to stick, the 4th time. The blade could then tree topped arm hairs with ease. I shaved WTG, straight from the stone. ATG the blade didn’t feel right, so I then stropped the blade heavily on the rough side of my strop which has CroX added. After that the blade was much more comfortable on my face, and I received a DFS. This is the first time I ever used slurry, what a neat experience. It was very cool to see it moving about on the stone! I could tell when I first began that the heel of the razor needed a little pressure, as the slurry wasn’t moving in that area. It didn’t take much time at all, and the slurry was moving consistently along the entire length of the blade. I’m very happy with the results I got. Now I want to try one of the razors I’m going to restore, using this method. Anyone out there with any other suggestions about using these stones, I’m all ears. Thanks to everyone for all the help, and I’ll keep posting on here with my results. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Congrats, this looks like you took a big step! One thing, what is heavily stropping on crox? The crox belt sounds like a good idea after the dt, for me, its a stone between bevel and finisher, and a few ligth passes on a pasted loomstrop would guve a nice finish, a bit sharper, but mostly softer. Too much passes, or to much pressure and The pasted strop rounds the edge.
@Arnout would you mind giving a brief run down of your preferred stones please. Now that I am starting to get more comfortable with synthetics I am interested in finishing on naturals.
I have two of these stones but not the Silkstone. I have been searching for more information without luck. Can someone give me a quick run down on its comparative grit and use in comparison with the other two please?
Thanks, it was definitely a big step. To answer your question, I was trying to say I stropped it on CroX pasted leather. After doing that it felt much better during the shave.
Crox can do miracles, but to much rounds the edge. I like coticule a lot, I like jnat a lot, I like pale Eshers, the charnley forest is a nice finisher, the Welsh slate 12 k and a few laps on the 15 k afterwards is also a fine edge, and the dt is a nice stone to fill the gap from bevel to finish. The Sioux I am testing seems also pretty nice,...
Dunno Much About Welsh Slates..I Do However have a Yellow Lake Branded OIL Stone..I Use Bisley Gun Oil & Use it Purely as a Finisher..With Oil this Stone has a Much Higher Finishing Capacity than My 20 K Surgical Black Arkansas.. Yeah I Know..I Didn't Believe a Welsh Slate Could be so Fine a Finisher Like Most Folks..All I Can Say is I Can Get Well Above a 20 K + Edge from this Stone with Oil..No Problemo...Hard to Believe I Know..There Ya Go..Was Cheap as Chips an All.. Billy..
You are killing me with these snippets of information! How do you use the oil? Do you start with a slurry and progressively dilute with oil, or do you just hone with the oil. How are you getting to such high grit. Does the stone start like that or is there some honemeister ninja trick you are keeping from us.
I can’t speak for @Billyfergie, but I think I can help you some. I’m just getting started with natural stones for razors myself, and am nowhere near a honemeister. I do know that Oil stones are just that, they are used with oil. They are not used with a slurry. Everyone seems to have their preferred oil or mixture of oils. Natural oil stones, seem to be very hard stones, and are not forgiving at all. One mistake and you need to start all over again. Think of these stones as a fine polisher. To get to that high of “grit” some people burnish the Stone. Also using the oil raises the “grit” of the Stone by reducing the friction. I use Arkansas stones to sharpen knifes, I like to use Hoppys gun oil. Knifes are a totally different than honing razors, but the stone is used the same way. Hopefully that helps, and I’m sure someone with more experience will come along and help you.
Thanks - yes that's starting to make sense. I am kicking myself that I wasn't interested in this stuff when family members - now sadly passed - who knew this stuff, tried to teach me.
Yeah, I think There are a lot of us like that. My grandfather is 90 years old, and taught me a lot, although I wished I would have listened more closely, to some of the things he taught me. 2 years ago he went into a nursing home, after he had a stoke. The stroke caused him to lose a lot of his memory. He did teach me some about shaving, as he was a DE razor man himself. He was a pretty self sufficient farmer, who did a lot of the work the old fashioned way, and taught me a lot about farming, working on equipment, hunting, fishing, and trapping. The most important things were work ethics, hard work pays off, and being a good honest person. I’m trying my hardest to pass everything I’ve learned from him, to my teenage son.
Well..I Can Only Speak of My Own Welsh Stone here..Its a Very Hard Stone to Hone On..Like an Arkie in Some Ways..Which I Also Use the Same Oil..On the Welsh Slate which is a Very Fine Ultra Smooth Stone I Use Only Very Light Strokes..In the Hand..Just Enough to So its Sucked Down Flat..I Crumbled the Edge on a Swedish Steel Japanese SR that Could Handle a 20 K Arkansas Edge No Problem when I Was Testing its Max Potential.. I Sold the Same Razor Refinished on the Welsh Slate & the Guy was Raving about the Edge & What Stone I Used as a Finisher..I Took it Off Around the 20 K Mark from the Welsh Slate..No Voodoo, No Slurry No Tricks...I Just Know the Stone Well..I Find is as Consistent as a Synthetic..But..Hey..Thats Me Talkin..I Was Honing with Sythetic Hones a Long Time Before I Ventured into Naturals.. Personally I Wouldn't Recommend Any Natural Stone for a Beginner..They are Indeed Far Less Forgiving to Learn on than Naturals... Billy..
Advice noted. I'll stick with synthetics for a while longer. Just to explain - for 20 years my razors were honed by a guy who is sadly no longer with us. Since returning to straight shaving I have not been able to find an edge anything like the ones he used to create for me. I am pretty certain he used naturals. The edges that @Arnout describes sound similar. My ambition is to be able to sharpen a razor like the ones I used in my youth. At least I am at the point where I am starting to get edges I like from the synthetics. I'll try to continue to master these.
An (easy?) fast and cheap inbetween is to use low grit synthetics, 1, 2 and 5k to set and refine the bevel and continue on a natural. On the other hand, i started honing razors on a rather soft coticule and i had no big issues. A thing about synthetics for beginners, A poorly set but agressive edge seems sharp, but the more a poor bevel is refined the worse it shaves. Overhoning is a bigger issue with synthetics. If you lift the spine you cut into a soft stone, killing the edge and requiring flattening the stone. On a hard stone you might kill the edge. ....
Your various posts encouraged me, and the advice has been great - thanks!! I have added a 2k into my synthetic progression. - it has really helped... Much more consistent polishing. Before I was always missing a couple of deeper cuts from the 1k whenever I got to the higher grits and it was causing me to go back. Last night I tried the Welsh Dragon's tongue for the first time. I set the bevel on a 1k Naniwa. Being way too impatient I couldn't be bothered to use the 2k or 4k synthetics but instead jumped straight to the Dragon's Tongue, starting with slurry and gradually diluting. I finished on a Charnley Forest with water. The razor shaved well, - much better than it has ever off synthetics - although I think I can improve with a little patience, and more time on the other synths before moving onto the naturals.
