Another noob seeking advice

Discussion in 'Shave School' started by otacon, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Ok, I took some pictures of my 3 pass shave. It was my third use of a Feather blade and I think it wasn't as good as my last two. Particulary during my third pass, I noticed some pulling and tugging and so didn't get as close a shave as I'd liked. Is it normal for Feather blades to only last two shaves?

    The photos were taken in the following order:
    • pre-shave,
    • then after prepping with a shower and 1-2 minutes of hot towel treatment on top of a proraso pre-shave cream,
    • then some photos of my finished lather,
    • then lathered for the first pass,
    • then after the third pass, just after I rinsed my face with cold water but before applying any balm,
    • and finally 20 minutes after the shave.
    h t t p://imgur.com/a/UADBH

    I used a Merkur Progress LH with a Feather blade and Proraso Sandalwood cream:
    • first pass was (as I thought) WTG on setting 4,
    • second pass XTG on setting 3.5
    • third pass ATG on setting 3
    Once again, my skin started burning right as I applied the lather for my third pass and it did continue to do so for about 30 to 40 minutes.

    Seeing the pictures now, I realised three things:
    1. I might have a lot of ingrown hairs? Didn't notice that before, I always thought that my skin was red due to irritation. Well, I'm wearing glasses, so I can't see that much in the bathroom.
    2. My whiskers don't look that well hydrated, or is it just because of the bad pictures?
    3. I'm not totally sure about the direction that my beard grows in anymore, I may need to do some mapping.
    Cheers
     
  2. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    I'll keep the pictures small, you can reference them as we go along. http://imgur.com/a/UADBH
    I'll help you with the mapping and give you some pointers. all perspectives will be described as though you were looking in a mirror.

    PRESHAVE

    [​IMG]
    First picture: Chin and front of neck. Your hairs grow downwards here until just before the jawline. At this point they start to grow down and to the left and right, respectively (towards the hinge point of your lower jaw, if that helps) When you shave towards your jawline down from your cheeks you will want to use a stroke that looks like a lowercase "j" and follows the direction of hair growth.
    [​IMG]
    Second picture: Right cheek. Your hairs grow predominately down and back towards your earlobe. Major irritation and possibly some ingrown hairs. When shaving this area, avoid shaving towards your nose or eyeballs. In fact, if you can, don't shave for a couple of days. Let your face heal up.
    [​IMG]
    Third picture: Left cheek. Same directional hair growth, down and back towards your earlobe. Same advice as above.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The neck: Again some irritation and a few ingrown hairs. Your hair grows upwards along your neck. Put your hand around your throat, snug your thumb and index finger against your jawbone. The remaining visible hair grows downwards from your jawline. Here you should shave with the direction of hair growth.

    LATHER

    [​IMG]
    Your lather looks fine. I personally prefer a little bit thicker lather, but that is a decent lather. Nothing to see here, moving on...

    LATHER BEFORE FIRST PASS

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Here is the lather applied for the first pass. Looks fine, right? Not really... This is a common newbie mistake and someone would have pointed this out sooner or later. The final pass of the brush when applying lather should always be against the direction of hair growth. This makes the hairs stand up straight, exfoliates the face and provides the blade with the optimum angle of attack. You want the hairs to be contacting the blade at a 90 degree angle. The lather could be applied about twice as thick as well, but I've shaved with lather applied that thinly with good results before. Don't be stingy with the lather.

    AFTER THIRD PASS, AFTER COLD WATER RINSE, BEFORE BALM

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I'd like to highlight one picture here:
    [​IMG]
    This is razor burn, most likely caused by shaving against the grain. You can see where the skin is red and irritated around the hair follicles? That is where the blade lifted the hairs and caught some of the pulled up skin. You are missing a few layers of skin cells that were there last night. The jawline is a problem for many people so don't feel singled out. There is a tendency to use more pressure there, and also to quickly "touch-up" missed spots without re-applying lather.

    POST SHAVE: 20 MINUTES AFTER APPLYING BALM

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Here you can see that much of the redness has gone away, but there are still some inflamed areas. The overall shave looks pretty decent. This is what my face used to look like after shaving with a cartridge razor.

    Final words of advice. If you are shaving right out of the shower, you really don't need to do the hot towel routine. But if you feel it improves your shave, or adds to your enjoyment of the shaving routine, by all means continue doing it.
    At this time I would suggest that you try to build a third again as much lather as you have been building and apply it twice as thickly, remembering to do the final pass with the brush against the direction of hair growth.
    Doing this should let you get a two pass shave instead of three passes. If you can, limit yourself to WTG on the first pass and XTG on the second pass.
    Use a high quality skin food post shave. Trumper's if you can afford it (I've got a sample I'll send you if you PM me your address), TSD's skin milk if you can't. With skin as badly damaged and irritated as yours, this is vital. While you are waiting for one of those to arrive, make do with Nivea Sensitive Skin Moisturizing Balm. Sold at Wal*Mart, it's one of the few balms that is still sold in a glass bottle.

    Thank you for taking the time to post these pictures. It would be so helpful if more members with problems would do that.
     
  3. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Thank you PLANofMAN, very much appreciate your help. I see things a bit clearer now and will try your suggestions. Alas, I can't take a few days off atm, that will have to wait till next weekend.

    Thanks. I'm trying to get it thicker, but the problem is that when massaging the lather onto my face, it always turns out looking pretty thin after a few swirls. Is that normal? Should I use more water when producing the lather?
    Hmm, I definitly did no "touching-up" at the jawline, so I must be either using too much pressure or have just a very sensitive skin. Could also have been the blade, I guess, which was going down in my third shave.
    I'll definitly try the Trumper. In the meantime I have and am using the Nvidia Sensitive Balm.

    I see I have quite a bit to learn, cheers.
     
  4. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    Less water, if anything. What's happening here is you make a nice lather, get your face wet and apply the lather to your face, swirling it around. What has just happened is you are now face lathering and you've added more water to your lather, which makes it thinner. Or if you don't add water to your face, your brush is now releasing the water it retained at the base of the knot, also thinning the lather. There are two ways to fix this.

    1. The swirl and pump. Do this when building lather. After a few swirls, push the handle down into the bowl (this is the pump). The brush knot will splay out along the sides of the bowl and push lather towards the rim. Pump the handle up and down, and swirl the brush once or twice. Swirl the lather back down to the center of the bowl and repeat with the pump and swirl. This empties the brush of excess water and aerates the lather.

    way 2. The paintbrush. instead of swirling the brush on your face, paint the lather on. Up, down, up, down, just like the karate kid. If you need more lather, swirl the brush in your bowl a few times.
    It sounds to me like you have Titanium beard and sensitive skin syndrome. The Progress is an agressive razor and combined with a super sharp blade like feathers could be causing you problems as well. My advice here is to switch either your razor or your blades. Switch to a milder blade like Astras or Volkshod for your Progress, or use your Feathers in a vintage Gillette flare tip Super Speed or a modern mild razor like the feather popular.
    Thank you, we all had to start somewhere. Someday it will be you passing information on to a new generation of newbies.
     
  5. GDCarrington

    GDCarrington Burma Shave

    Speaking of hydration, you may want to do this trick to help.
    In the evening before going to bed, apply some water to your face and let it sit a minute. Then apply a good after shave balm that has moisturizers like Nivea to lock in a little moisture.
    That can help your skin recover and also provide an additional opportunity for your skin to get extra water.
     
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  6. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Is there really a difference between using my Progress on the lowest setting and a Feather popular? I can't seem to get anything done under a 2 with the Progress.
     
  7. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    The razors shave completely differently from each other, but having never owned either one, I can't give you anything more than I've already told you. The Progress is considered an aggressive razor and the popular is considered a mild razor. Sorry.

    Before you go on a razor buying spree, I would suggest you try different blades with your razor first, and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then will be the time to consider a different razor. Hopefully someone will chime in who owns both or one of these razors and can give you some pointers.

    I'm a firm believer in the philosophy that almost anyone can get a decent shave from almost any razor once he or she finds the right blade for the razor.
     
  8. swarden43

    swarden43 "It's your shave. Enjoy it your way."©

    Excellent advice.

    I'm a believer in that philosophy, as well; key word in Ryan's statement being, "almost." And not only the right razor/blade combo, but proper technique to use with that combo.
     
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  9. PadreTex

    PadreTex Well-Known Member

    Ouch! Had a similar experience but it was a smile at a joke I heard from the other room. I didn't realize my razor was so close to my face. Luckily the scar is almost gone. :)
     
  10. Sara-s

    Sara-s This Pun for Hire

    One more thought on redness; try some unscented soaps/creams, to eliminate the possibility that you are allergic to a fragrance element.
     
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  11. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Thanks Sara, that's a good tip. I've already ordered a "Calani Cadre Noir" natural soap, it's not unscented, but I hope it will turn out better for my skin without all the extra chemicals in there and, afaik, it's vegan t0o :happy088:
     
  12. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    It would be a relief for you if that is what your problem is. I didn't even think about possible allergic reactions.

    I've posted a link to this thread in my advice for new wet shavers thread, as an example of how to correctly ask questions and get feedback. I hope you don't mind. Please keep us updated on how things work out for you.
     
  13. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Sure ryan, noobs need all the information they can get. I'll keep you posted.
     
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  14. otacon

    otacon New Member

    So, I guess it's time for an update.

    Soon after my last post I received two new razors: one Edwin Jagger DE89BA11, as recommended, and a Muehle R-41, because I just had to know ;) The R41 is a monster and requires extremly careful handling. It gives me razor burn pretty effortlessly, so I haven't used it much. The light weight of its handle doesn't help either. My tough beard makes it jump and in doing so prevents a clean shave. I've also combined the head with the heavier DE89 handle which made for a far better experience, but it was still too irritating for me (not sharp though).

    So I switched to the EJ and it's definetly the best of my three razors (Merkur Progress being the third). I guess my skin can only handle very mild razors, though, because of my though beard I prefer to use a Feather blade in comination. Everything else I've tried doesn't seem to get enough done, allthough I do like the softness of the Blue Platinum Gilette 7'oclock a bit more, but it's not sharp enough; close though.

    Anyway, that is not to say that I am satisfied with the sharpness of the Feather blades either. Let me try to explain: when I go over the same spot 3 to 4 times, alla blade buffing, I would expect a sharp blade to get rid of all the stubbles completely, but that's just not happening in the problem areas of my beard (chin and cheak). And so, without provoking major razor burn, there is no way for me to achieve a BBS.

    And what about my razor burn? Well, no matter how soft a touch and no matter how good a preparation I use, I can't seem to get rid of it. At least not without looking like I haven't shaved at all. I guess it's just my skin. And to be honest, I didn't expect to be able to. I've had this problem with all of my cartridges in the many years before. That's not to say that I will be going back as I think that there is at least a tiny bit of improvement. Also, it's just too much fun, at least for now :)

    I've read some good things about the slant bar razors, so I guess I will be trying that next. Would be grateful for any recommendation from you guys.

    Btw, the natural shaving soap did help with the burning sensation on my third pass, though it definetly wasn't the root cause of my razor burn.

    Cheers
     
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  15. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
    You have tried The EJ razor, which is a very mild shaver, The R41, which is one of, if not the most aggressive razor out there, and the Progress adjustable, also an aggressive shaver, even on it's lowest setting. I honestly don't think that a slant, also an aggressive razor, is going to work for you. I think you need to try a "normal" razor. The EJ is too mild and the other two are too aggressive. To me, it sounds as if you need a razor that is just aggressive enough to get a nice shave in two passes without being so mild you need to do three passes. I would start with a Gillette red tip Super Speed (aka Gillette Heavy) with sharp blades (i.e. feathers) then work your way down to duller blades until you find the one that is sharp enough to do the job, but not so sharp it leaves you with irritation. Your ideal razor/blade combo is probably going to be a red tip, with Astras or some other Russian blade. Hopefully some other people will chip in with their own viewpoints. I really think that we are starting to narrow down your razor burn issues.
     
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  16. otacon

    otacon New Member

    Cheers Ryan, always the optimist :p But honestly, I just can't picture it anymore. I'll try though, hope dies last ;) At least your idea intrigued me, wouldn't have thought of such a combination, though, like I said, for now I can't picture anything less sharp than a feather or blue 7 o'clock to do the job, but we'll see.

    Regarding the slant: I've read somewhere that it might do great things for the sensitive skin with tough beard combination and it sounded quite fitting.

    On another note: A while back I somehow got planted the idea in my head, that the Voskhod blades would work great for me (being both soft & sharp), so I made the typical newbie mistake and, against every recommendation to be read on any shaving board, ordered a pack of 100 from the russian ebay seller. As you might imagine, it turned out to be too dull for my beard. But at least I'm now properly prepared for you're suggestion :)

    I also got a pack of Polsilvers and while they are decently sharp, they die pretty quickly (in the middle of the second shave I'd say).

    Spot on, that's exactly the same conclusion I arrived at. One WTG and one XTG seems to work best, though a third XTG would be ideal, but my skin just can't handle it.
     
  17. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team

    Since you seem to be dead set on purchasing a slant, you might want to try this technique first. Modern shavers call it the "Gillette Slide," and it used to be included in the instruction pamphlet that came with all of Gillette's razors. They didn't have a catchy name for it, they just called it "shaving." A slant basically has this technique built in by design, but it's an easy enough experiment to try with a progress dialed down to it's mildest setting. I don't know why it's called an advanced shaving technique, because it's pretty basic, but there you go.:)
     
  18. 178-bplatoon

    178-bplatoon Well-Known Member

    Hi otacon, I'd like to thank you for your questions and especially the pics. Although I don't have your problems, I've learned some things from the answers you've gotten that will hopefully improve my shave.
    I'm an EJ89 user myself and after trying various vintage Gillettes,Feather,Parker97,Merkur HD I feel the EJ has the best shave head going at least for me at least for now. :) How do you feel about the handle? I know for me while the weight was nice the slickness of the handle(that could slip anytime feeling) definately hurt my shave. Trying a different handle with the EJ could help your shave as well. I've tried Gillette Fat Handle and Ball End handle techs, Durham Duplex DE handle,Parker 97 as well as a couple of noname handles, all were better then the original EJ handle grip wise but, the absolute BEST I've tried is the Weber BullDog handle. Being stainless they are pricey, a Weber handle will cost as much as a complete EJ89 razor, but if you want better grip with good heft they are hard to beat.

    Another thing I'd like to mention is shimming the blade. I find Feather blade sharp but way to harsh! You could use a milder blade(Blue 7 O'clock) and shim it to get that extra ump. Shims are easy to make, cost nothing but a little time and give you some adjustment to your EJ. You can find info online about making them or just PM me and I'll tell you how I do it.

    Tell me do you stretch your skin when shaving? That can also help with cutting the stubble and not the razor burning skin. One last thing enjoy the shave and just let your technique improve(it will with time and practice) as you go, don't worry about BBS, that will come. Hope this helps you some. :signs046: to the community.
     
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  19. PLANofMAN

    PLANofMAN Eccentric Razor Collector Staff Member

    Moderator Article Team
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  20. Ryan B

    Ryan B Knight of the Soapocracy

    1. I'm a military man, so when I'm on duty I take about 10-15 mins, less if I have to. But at home, I take a half hour give or take.
    2. It sounds like you might have an allergic reaction to sandalwood (I know, beating a dead horse...) or like it's been said, too much pressure.
    3. I have that same problem too sometimes. My hair is a very dark brown almost black, so 1 pass WTG isn't enough, I have to go XTG. I rarely ever do ATG because my face can't take it. Witch Hazel is good for soothing irritated skin.
    4. You're fine on cleaning the razor. I just rinse mine in hot water, shake it, then put it in the razor stand.

    On that note, welcome my man! You'll like it here, everyone is chill.
     
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