Prairie Creations Lye Burn

Discussion in 'Shave Soaps' started by rodd, Jan 15, 2010.

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  1. rodd

    rodd Knotty Boy

    This is only being posted as a notice to hopefully prevent burns from happening to other people.

    I bought a puck of Prairie Creations soap in late October. I used the soap and had a reaction. Having never had a reaction before, I assumed that I was allergic to it. I had a similar, yet milder reaction the next time I used the brush. Since I thought I was just allergic to it, I ended up giving it to a friend. Turns out he had the same reaction to it. He however noticed the signs of lye burn. He works with lye in one of his other hobbies, and knows the feeling. The skin feels slick (hard to tell with slick shaving soap) and can usually be told from an allergic reaction by even redness, rather than splotchy that you would usually have from an allergic reaction. He tested it, and it was high in lye.

    When I got my burn, it started right away, and even after rinsing and washing my face the burn continued to get worse for quite a while after the shave.

    I have since been told that rinsing with vinegar diluted in water would help neutralize the lye. The same should be done for the brush. Here is a link with first aid information for dealing with chemical burns.

    I am not sure how many pucks went out with high lye content. I know that she makes these in batches, then scents them, so I assume there are more of these out there, or going out.
     
  2. JohnInPeoria

    JohnInPeoria Member

    Thanks for that warning, and the 'cure', as well.
     
  3. TomPike

    TomPike Active Member

    Thank you, Rodd.
     
  4. domino

    domino New Member

    Rodd.
    I hope you are ok now.
     
  5. Issy

    Issy TheMadSoaper

    Dangerous, glad you didnt get any in your eye. The best way to wash it off is plain water at 1st. Vinegar makes it nutural but raises the heat in the proccess.

    Issy
     
  6. Garyg

    Garyg Member

    Wow, I have some PC soap, did you contact her about this? If so, was there an answer or any indication of what range of dates the products were produced?
     
  7. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    I was the friend that used the soap. My other hobby is biodiesel production, which has me working with lots of chemicals, including lye. Lye burns are recognizable when you've experienced them, and after using this soap I became concerned.

    I tested the soap with the traditional "tongue test", and also with a phenolphthalein test solution, which I had on hand. Phenolphthalein is a clear solution that turns light pink around ph 10 (lye is ph13). Due to the behavior of the solution during the test, I would expect the ph to be higher than the base indicator of the solution.

    Now, when I say this soap burns, i'm not saying my skin is gonna fall off or anything, but it's certainly uncomfortable. I wouldn't expect permanent damage from it, but if it ended up in your mouth or eyes, i'm not so sure.

    I've been trying to contact prairie creations for 2 days, and have not yet gotten a reply.
     
  8. TomPike

    TomPike Active Member

    Thanks, Sparky. The quantification helps. I hope we hear something soon.
     
  9. Issy

    Issy TheMadSoaper

    Sparkys tests are correct, if you got in your eye you would have big trouble, thank God you didnt. I hope she answers.

    Issy
     
  10. Garyg

    Garyg Member

    Thanks for the information, Since I have used the soap I have without reaction, I can assume I don't need to worry? Also, isn't lye a usual component of soap, so that this is perhaps a case of too much lye, not lye in and of itself?
     
  11. ChemErik

    ChemErik Mr. Personality

    Lye is used to saponify oils (oil + lye = soap). When all the lye reacts with the oil, the pH is still slightly alkali (above 7), but well below a dangerous level. When you have more lye than oil, you get excess lye left in the soap, which is dangerous for the reasons described above. When you have more oil than lye, the soap is super-fatted and won't dry your skin as much but also may not clean and/or lather as well if you have too much super-fat.
     
  12. Garyg

    Garyg Member

    Thanks, I think I have been saved, but not super-fatted.
     
  13. noxlord

    noxlord New Member

    I thought the waiting time after the soap pour was for the Lye to evaporate. So the lye alwais stays in the soap ?
     
  14. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    Lye doesn't evaporate. Lye is used in all cold process soaps, but is normally fully consumed during the chemical reaction that makes the soap (called saponification).
     
  15. ironbrewer

    ironbrewer New Member

    Actually Phenolphthalein is pink in the range of 8.2 up to 12 so its not a great indicator of where you are. 8.2 will not hurt you skin. Your skin is not ph neutral (7.0). It is slightly below neutral. Here is a link to ph and skin and commercially available soaps ph, which is usually between a ph of 9.0 and 11.0 which would definately show up as pink with phenolphthalein.. Here is a link to the phenol wiki. I just made my first shaving cream. I plan on bringing it into work and checking the ph of a sample dissolved in water. Nonetheless this is a big bummer, and something to keep in mind when I'm making soap. I will definitely test the ph of each batch when it is done. It could have also been poorly mixed and had a pocket of high ph in it.
     
  16. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    The solution went pink, and then shifted to clear, which would indicate a ph above 12. Since phenolphthalein isn't the perfect indicator, I didn't want to come straight out and say my results were that high, but there it is.....

    It's not our intent to undermine the maker, but rather inform of a potential problem, which is why we initially tried to contact them before starting this thread.
     
  17. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    Here's what wiki has to say:

    In strongly basic solutions, phenolphthalein's pink color undergoes a rather slow fading reaction and becomes colorless again. In other words, the molecule has four forms:


    Strongly basic is later defined as 12+.
     
  18. ironbrewer

    ironbrewer New Member

    Didn't see that it went pink then clear. That is pretty bad. I didn't mean to call you out. I was just trying to clarify things a bit. Didn't mean to offend you in anyway.
     
  19. sparky5693

    sparky5693 Administrator Staff Member

    Administrator
    No worries at all.
     
  20. steppenwolph

    steppenwolph Member

    You know, I too have had a reaction to my Prairie Creations soap. How does one tell the difference between a sensitivity to the fragrance oils (or other allergic reaction) and a lye burn? I really hope that my soap is not contaminated with excess lye. Any way to fix it at home if it is?
     
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