Aristocrat, Sheraton, & Senator: Gillette's TTO Open Comb Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by PLANofMAN, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Here is an aside on the 3rd variant of the open comb Aristocrat though not available to the general public they were still being sold by the American Legion from 1940 - 1942.

    The American Legion Emblem Catalog 1942 pg 27
    https://archive.org/details/americanlegionem00amer_20/page/26?q=american+legion+emblem+1942

    The American Legion Emblem Catalog 1941 pg 27
    https://archive.org/details/americanlegionem00amer_19/page/26?q=+gillette++razor++1941

    The American Legion Emblem Catalog 1940 pg 27
    https://archive.org/details/americanlegionem00amer_18/page/26?q=gillette++razor++1940

    As an aside they don't sell any razors earlier in the 36 to 39 catalogs. That would make any American Legion Aristocrat sets with this variant razor dated for sure to 1940 - 42. Which means my 3rd variant Aristocrat open comb is a 40 - 42.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  2. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Here are pictures of an 40 - 42 American Legion set. Unless this blade bank was originally gold plated it most likely is not original to this set according to catalog descriptions.

    am1.jpg am2.jpg am3.jpg am4.jpg am5.jpg am6.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  3. Number six

    Number six Well-Known Member

    Decided to go for a 24k gold plate of my Sheraton since the razor is so clean. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person! Here is a pic from Chris Spencer (Back Roads Gold):
    Sheraton replate_1_sm.jpg
     
  4. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    I've found two examples of mintyy Ranger Techs with unplated/polished brass heads/nickel handles which leads me to believe that this kind of thing Gillette may have done during this period.
     
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  5. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    I would surmise that maybe they aren't minty if that is the case.
     
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  6. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    This does not look to me like a razor that had been stripped due to plate loss.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  7. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    It also doesn't look original. That case for starters is for a 40 Milord, my guess is that is what you have that someone redid when the gold wash faded out.
     
  8. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    Makes no sense to me that someone would do that to a Milord (they nickel plated the handle??) or Ranger Tech but I'll move on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  9. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    They are the same razor sans plating. Unless you are anal about sets they shave the same regardless of case or finish.
    People guncote razors which makes a razor look like a car with an Earl Schibe primer paint job special so stranger things have happened.
     
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  10. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    The other consideration is it's a 41 Ranger Tech with plate loss that someone threw in a 40 Milord case not knowing the difference. The 40 Milord cases didn't say Milord on them either in case anyone asks. Either way it is the same razor so we are splitting hairs here unless you are concerned about correctness of the presentation of the set itself. Razors do lose plating only on the head and not handle and vice versa regardless of whether that lost all it's plating and was partially redone or not. Unless I had the razor in hand I couldn't say 100% for certain if it was re-plated or not.
     
  11. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    It's not my razor so I have no dog in the fight. The owner does not believe he has a stripped or replated razor, whether it's Milord or Ranger.
     
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  12. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Case and point here is a President with the plating missing only on the handle. Head and knob still have the original plating.
    pr1.jpg
     
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  13. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Milord or Ranger really denotes the set, the razor itself well that is has been a point of contention with people who play fast and loose with labels and definitions. Problem is there is no formal agreed upon way to denote the razor itself regardless of plating or set it came in. Just because it is the correct razor to a set doesn't mean it is the correct razor for the set. It should be an apparent logical distinction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  14. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    They can believe whatever they want but as a matter of correctness if they want to label it by the set then the razor is wrong for the case. In this instance whatever piece can be positively identified is how it gets labeled and that is the case.

    I don't care if it is pedantic or not unless this point is understood bad information on these things keeps getting propagated and that becomes an issue especially when the price for one vs the other is enough for people to purposely lie to screw over a buyer. Thankfully you really don't see much of that if at all in razor collecting unlike in other collectible areas.
     
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  15. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    What we call them is less interesting than the question of whether any unplated brass components were issued from the factory. Your position has been made quite clear.
     
  16. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Here is my take from a business perspective, check the ad literature and pricing. First to see if they even specified that it came in two tone plating or something to that effect. Plating costs money and if they did that they should have been selling that variation for less than a full plated nickel or gold washed razor.
     
  17. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    Gillette sold all kinds of crazy mixed up razors throughout the 30s, both in the US and UK, I see no reason to believe that practice necessarily stopped with the introduction of the Senator/Sheraton or Milord/Ranger Tech.

    That being said , going back to MY razor, I do think now it's more likely than not as you describe. I'm just calling it a Senator, I'll let the poster with the other razor fend for himself (different forum).
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  18. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Mixing parts and plating is not the same thing especially from a business perspective and $$$ standpoint. The cost to re-plate a piece is nill when it is done in a large run of pieces. The economics are the economics here, with that said there is always the possibility pieces made their way out due to sloppy QC practices. To only partially plate a piece is slop and ultimately a mark against your brand something a competitor will try to knock you down on.

    Collectors tend to rationalize based on their personal biases not the reality of how a business would in the main do things. Me personally I don't like blatant BS and that is my perspective from which I am arguing my point.
     
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  19. jmudrick

    jmudrick Well-Known Member

    Fair enough, makes sense to me.
     
  20. brit

    brit in a box

    any reason a gillette president has a rhodium handle and not the head.?maybe a vice president?;)
     
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