BBS is a myth

Just a reminder that there's now been 50 years of development since the cartridge razor was introduced.

I always got a good shave from carts but never enjoyed the experience, that still holds true.

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Ditto

 

First, I'm not checking a baby's butt any time soon to check the smoothness. Second, an old guy I talked to once described a BBS was passing the "cotton ball test". I just know it when I feel it.

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The real issue with cartridges is the angle of the blade. If they designed them to be the same angle and gap as an injector they'd shave the same as the equivalent injector razor. That angle is also the main reason behind why people get shave pimples with carts something you do not get with DE or SE razors.

 

The cartridge razors are amazingly bad: amazingly bad for your skin; amazingly bad for the longevity of the shave (assuming you only do a single pass which is the whole point); and amazingly bad for your wallet.

There is one thing though that the cartridge razors are amazingly good at: getting people to buy them and pay for the advertising that does so.

 

I'd be interested in some scientific evidence being this, if possible?

 

https://www.shaving-shack.com/blog/...y-better-than-a-cartridge-based-razor-system/

https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/why-de-is-better/

https://www.toolsofmen.com/safety-razor-vs-cartridge-razor/

 

Again, not sure I can agree. Why is a cartridge razor bad for your skin? Please do supply some evidence.

I don't understand your point about longevity of the shave? When I use a cartridge I do the same 3 passes as with any other razor.

I've heard the comment about the cost many many times. But it is only true in abstract or theory. That is if you replace the cartridge razor with a single other razor. This is usually untrue and people buy quite a number some cost £200+. It also depends on which cartridge razor you buy. You then need to include the cost of other items: a shaving brush or two or three, a scuttle, shaving cream or soap and some skin food or similar. Many people who use a cartridge buy the cartridge razor and some shaving gel in a can which by the way costs £1.50 for 200ml. Try to get shaving cream at that price. Before I embarked on DE and SR shaving that's all I had. The cartridge razor and the shaving gel and occasionally some cheap Nivea shave balm.

Now I have 7 DE razor's, two SR's, Taylor's of Bond St shaving cream, arko soap, 2 silver tip badger brushes, 2 scuttles, two leather honing straps, I pay to have my SR's honed every so often, and an endless supply of Geo F. Trumper skin food (yes it's that good). I have spent well in excess of what I would had I stuck to cartridge shaving.

In the end I do not believe that cost in reality, is a real factor.

I also don't understand the vitriol people have against cartridge razors. The fact that you can cut your skin demonstrates that they shave close enough. Personally, I believe that many people use them simply because they work well. I get less irritation from a cartridge than DE out SR pass for pass.

In the end shaving is an immensely personal experience. We all have unique faces and beard growth. This means that all tools are going to play out differently. But they are tools and variety is an immense blessing.

I use DE and SR shaving for quite a unique purpose and that is to relieve stress. I do enjoy the shave, but don't have time to do it every day. I have a high stress job and 40 minutes shaving with a straight can really reduce my stress levels. Sounds odd I know, but I think the focus needed not to slice my face up stops me thinking about what's causing the stress.

 

Ok so we also don't agree on what is scientific and what is opinion . None of these articles provide any empirical or scientific evidence, just that these are opinions of expert so-and-so. The one comment on the last article about skin bumps links to a source that is a 404 page.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree .

 

BBS is NOT a myth, it is achievable. Now, whether or not "chasing" a BBS is worth or not is another story. Personally, BBS shaves last only about 2-3 hours, so the chase isn't always worth it.

 

It is called math. All guarded razors regardless of blade format that includes cart are designed around these parameters for hair cutting.

I'll use the B & B wiki here since it explains it better than I can.
https://www.badgerandblade.com/foru...d-tape-strips-on-safety-razor-geometry.59679/

https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/media/safety-razor-parameters-around-blade-cutting-edge.59691/

https://www.badgerandblade.com/foru...ty-razor-aggressiveness-and-efficiency.59681/

https://www.badgerandblade.com/foru...ty-razor-aggressiveness-and-efficiency.59678/

https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/media/safety-razor-parameters-around-blade-cutting-edge.59381/

All the information is on seperate pages for each pic in the bottom.

 

You make some excellent points. Some I agree with and a few I don't. For instance, I use carts when I travel and I'll get excellent shaves but I've noticed, for whatever reason, that I'm stubbly at least half as early as I am when I use a DE or straight, and the same applies with the DE/straight if I execute well with the straight.

I don't know if anyone has done a study and taken measurements on shave pimples/other irritation, or at least if they have they aren't publishing it (I'm looking at you Gillette). I do know that from my own experience that I will get ingrown hairs from those carts shaves while traveling. Again, I don't know why but it just happens. I've even opted to not shave while on the road unless I must, just so I can avoid the inevitable irritation. While good technique has allowed me good shaves with carts, some other variable gets the other unwanted aspects to arise.

As far as cost goes, it isn't a myth at all if one can contain oneself. A brush, soap, DE razor, and blades easily wins over time. If one gets enthusiastic as many of us have, that all falls away...there is no way I'd have spent a few thousand on carts over the last 10 years or so.

There is vitriol over carts. No argument there. The only real argument I have against them, even taking into account bumps and rashes, is waste. Plastic sucks. Not a lot of plastic involved with DE shaving.

Great perspectives in this thread.

I've not subscribed to a complete BBS in a long time. I have trouble spots like most folks do so I just shoot for the easy stuff and know that BBS is fleeting anyway.

 

The evidence (other than that cited above) is my own sworn testimony. I shaved with a Trac II for many years and constantly suffered from ingrown hairs on my neck. This problem completely disappeared when I switched to a disposable SE razor. Do a little research on the "Lift-n-cut" system and you will see why-it cuts the hair off below the skin level and puts a sharp point on one side. If you are looking for a double blind study done by Johns-Hopkins, sorry I don't have it. Modern cartridge razors have five blades. It drags five blades across your face. A double pass SE shave only drags two blades over your face. Which do you think exfoliates more?

Simple math.

The vitriol is that a Fusion cartridge costs five bucks with tax and is worthless after eight shaves. A $100.00 straight razor is good for a lifetime. Even a DE blade only costs 20 cents if bought in bulk, maybe less.

Oh, and if you are getting more irritation pass for pass from a straight razor than a cartridge something is radically wrong.

 

Now add the cost to have each one honed once a year. Or the cost for a set of good stones, if you're sharpening them yourself.
Just messin

 

I can't seem to find the comments outside the images?

I really appreciate your experience and in no way shed any doubt on your usage. However, my experience is different. No ingrown hairs, no bumps and no irritation.

If I was looking at simple math, I would ask myself if each razor cuts at skin level. If they both do then one cannot shave closer than the other. You can cut yourself with both DE/SR and cartridges. If cartridges did not shave at skin level,I would have thought cutting yourself would not be possible? I ask the question as I am no expert, just trying to add some logic.

I agree with many that plastic is the biggest issue with cartridges.

swarden43 has already made comments about extra costs that need to be included in the cost of shaving with DE/SR.

I can purchase a years supply of fusion blades for £23 (appx £2 per cartridge; 1 lasts me a month if I use it daily). Shaving gel at 200ml at £1.5x6=£9. £32 for one year of shaving is not bad going.

None of this is to say that I believe cartridges are the best, because I don't. But they do produce a good shave for me that lasts at least 24 hours. Shaves would be classed as BBS (that's simply because I can shave in any direction to reach those awkward spots that I cannot with a DE/SR (not without cutting my throat!). In terms of every day practicality DE/SR shaving cannot compete for me. This is because the prep time and shave time is considerably longer. I can shave in the shower with a cartridge and be done in 5 minutes. I would also argue that often we don't apply the same "learn the technique" for a proper shave with a cartridge. Cartridges also require skill to shave well as any tool does.

What irks me is the rensaissance attitude that everything new is bad. Gillette/Wilkinson/Mühle/Merkur/... may well be bad companies, but that doesn't mean I should dismiss the technology. I think it a thing of genius to get 5 blades in a small cartridge and to be able to shave from neck to over the chin in one motion with the invention of the moving head. Who would have thought in the day of the SR or DE razors that something like that would be possible? My hat goes off to the inventors, and in my daily life I'm grateful that such tech exists. I also enjoy the hobby of shaving. On a day off or slow day I really enjoy using my SR or Feather straight for a long slow shave. I also like classic cars, but would not want one as my daily workhorse.

I hope none of this is offensive as it is not intended to be as I enjoy coming on these forums and having a banter about tech. One thing is for sure, the best razor for a BBS shave will be the next one I buy and I can't wait to get it. Once I've got it and I glory in the first few days of shaves, I'll hear about another model that will bring me ever closer...

I wise man on this forum told me many years ago a simple truth that has stuck with me. Any razor that cuts at skin level can give you a great shave. You cannot get closer than that. And on that level 99.9% of razors are sufficient to give us a fantastic shave every day once we master its geometry. In the meantime I must dash away to eBay for my next purchase...!

 

Well, funny you should bring that up. Just yesterday I sent in my GD 208 to be honed. It is my every time shaver (I shave about every third day). It still shaves OK, just not as nicely as I would like and the touch up stone and chrom-ox treated strop suede side aren't helping all that much anymore. The cost including postage is $29.00. The last time it was honed was more than eight years ago. So, over a fifty year shave career you might spend $180.00 on honing. Or, you could buy an $120.00 double sided wet stone and do it yourself. Lets compare that to the cost of cartridges over 50 years. Let's see- 25 cartridges per year at five bucks each that's $125.00 per year times 50 years (assuming no inflation) equals $6,250.00!

 

Pretty much the same here. a BBS shave would start to produce stubble within a few hours, 1 o'clock shadow for me, with carts. I had a problem with bumps, ingrown hair, and a lot of irritation. I spent money thinking it was acne or pimples starting. Carts would only give me about three shaves worth of BBS shaves. DE blades give me about 4-6 shaves and much cheaper. And today I don't have a problem with either of those. And I don't have to shave everyday, unless I have to because stubble will now appear much later. And I will use a mild razor for those, usually my Blue Tip.

 

A perfect BBS shave is an ideal. I can get close enough with a 2-passer to be content. I usually claim "near-BBS" as I can always find some evidence of stubble somewhere if I check my mug with my Bride's 10X mirror. Chasing an absolute BBS is kinda like spending time rearranging my sock and underwear drawer. Results vs. effort ain't worth the time, and it only stays that way a short time.

 

I find it odd that anyone would judge for a BBS shave by looking in the mirror and not by feel.