Dovo Straights: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

Will do. Thanks for the heads up, I haven’t visited that thread yet.

 

Where did you end up getting it?

 

Straight Razor Designs. They’re having a 40% off sale right now so I got it for a great price.

 

Pics posted @ the acquisition thread.

 

I can easily see myself falling down the rabbit hole here... just like I did with fountain pens and wristwatches...

 

Great razor to get started with!

 

A bit of misinformation here I feel I should correct.

Whatever variances in the finish of sharpness you've achieved with the Dovo razors of current production, it does NOT have anything to do with a variance in the recipe of or tempering of their carbon steel razors, nor anything to do with the presence of 'Prima Silver" written on the blade or lack thereof, or for that matter their cute/historic choice to write 'Swedish steel' on some packaging and on others not.

- There is only one recipe of carbon steel used for many many years (115CRV3), the particulars of the tempering processes of which [= medium, temps, time at each temp] always being a tightly guarded secret among the German cutlers.

- ALL modern Dovo carbon steel razors have exactly the same steel formulation and tempering process.

- The wheels are _NOT_ "domed". Only the whetstones are "domed".

'now' is a relative term and not an absolute one, but Dovo has certainly used these flat wheels for several decades (they lost all records due to 1945 conditions) and it is overwhelmingly likely they were used on the beloved vintage Dovos, and they have used the "domed" whetstones since well before WWII, again making it overwhelmingly likely any beloved vintage Dovo (or Dubl Duck, and many many others) used a "domed" whetstone at the factory (this was something that began in the late 1880s in Sheffield and was quickly copied by German and American grinders).

 

"- There is only one recipe of carbon steel used for many many years (115CRV3), the particulars of the tempering processes of which [= medium, temps, time at each temp] always being a tightly guarded secret among the German cutlers."


"-
Silver steel

Silver steel is common tool steel that is supplied as a centerless ground round bar (with tolerances similar to that of drill bit). The name comes from the highly polished appearance of the rods; there is no silver in the alloy.

Among other applications, it has been widely used to make such things as punches, engravers, screwdrivers. Sheffield silver steel is used in France as a blade steel for straight razors. In Finland, German silver steel was and still is widely used for Puukko knives.

The composition is defined by UK specification BS-1407, and is given below.

In the annealed state it has a hardness of 27 HRC. It can be hardened to 64 HRC.[1]

The European/Werkstoff equivalent is 1.2210 / 115CrV3, which also includes some vanadium."

Marketing is way cheaper than R&D although I've seen minute changes to steels especially in the knife industry that allow for a new name and title...... "super steel". Sometimes there's a difference but sometimes the difference is merely laboratory measurable difference that allows for "marketing opportunities".

 

Jared: thanks for clearing this up. I also have a modern Dovo and it does have a fabulous grind as well as an edge. Lots of misinformation floating around the inter webs. I would dare wager more Dovos have passed through your hands than all of us combined.

 

There was historically time when the Solingen companies used several recipes of steel for the various models and the names often denoted this. But at least since the 1980s and likely well before that, the 1.2210 (115crv3) has ruled dominant in Solingen. It is indeed a formulation that was first used in Sweden, hence the naming 'Swedish Steel', but the ore unforged steel could come from anywhere (regardless of where the steel rod is sourced, it must be drop forged within Solingen to say "Solingen Germany" on the steel). Similarly there are countless Pakistani grinders of scissors advertising Japanese 440 steel because they're using steel (very likely from India) that adheres to the specific formulation first created in JP - it is a good recipe for hairdressing scissors, but the Pakis choose to use it because of all the same reasons that consumers will think it is better for the steel coming from Japan.

What matters is the recipe itself's pros and cons and where the spectrum ended up along those data points, not where the ore originated.

I don't know if 115crv3 can be made to 64HRc in a straight razor, but it can certainly get to 62 without a fight, and Dovo could if it interested them, easily. Dovo doesn't want that; they don't want a brittle edge, so they specifically choose to heat treat to 60 Rockwell, feeling that's the best compromise between edge retention, flexibility, and ease of edge creation. I don't believe in untested data so I do not know for certain with the other makers, but I certainly suspect that other Solingen makers choose to heat treat for more resulting hardness and less flexibility - empirically on the whetstones I have at hand they are easier to microchip from an errant stroke that will not bother the Dovos. To their positive side and to Dovo's inferior position, I'd imagine they could hold a sharper maximum edge using the best manmade hones in exchange for that chippy-ness. All just choices made by the metallurgical masters.

I'd be surprised if here in the states there was more than one person alive who's personally handled more Dovo razors than myself, and at >1000pcs/yr (this isn't a fad anymore sadly, but in the earlier years it was much more than that) it doesn't seem possible for any end users to have a similar sample size. You'll definitely get a razor with less hand-made-ness queues in the costlier pieces, but it is still the same steel, exact same processes for production, same small group of master grinders doing all the work. I'm of the opinion that the "blank" itself (meaning the rough draft shape to which the hot steel is drop forged upon) is where you get the biggest changes in the 'quality' of any Solingen company's razors, because it doesn't matter how much you grind, some blanks just start off superior and will make in my opinion a superior thinness and flex in the finished product. That true choice has greatly decreased over the years from Dovo and many others - some of the companies only use _ONE_ specific blank, and when we started 9 years ago Dovo had many more physically different blanks, each subtly varied in shape and how the tang and shoulder and tail all form together, etc. Look at an old "Pearlex" for example if you can find one ('98' on tang), and note the more torpedo-ey shape to the toe...that was different from the rest of the line, and something I liked about it. Today it is physically identical to the 5/8 Best Quality (and every other round point 5/8 carbon steel model, from half hollow to full hollow to extra full hollow...all just one blank).

 

That's an interesting point about the steel used by Dovo. I've reached out to them to verify. 115CRV3 appears to be silver steel. Sounds like they may use Silver Steel for everything.

I definitely got a better result on one of their razors with a Silver Steel logo on it, though that could be due to several things other than the steel composition.

@Mr Two Bits, how is the shaving going so far? Plenty of folks here, myself included, that are happy to share shaving tips. A lot of folks try straights and don't keep them in the mix and it doesn't need to be that way.

 

Good thing you've reached out - all reading this should be encouraged to 'always question' and not just take what they read on the internet as a fact! Dovo is likely at this point tired of how many questions I ask of them in the perpetual thirst for knowledge that does not come from secondhand/unverified/colloquial sourcing, and worse yet is when you know from the horse's mouth what is what, but when you try to tell people [previously indoctrinated with colloquial/unverified/secondhand information they take as gospel from those they read from far more often] about what you know from direct sourcing to be true you are castigated and ostracized. There are many fields and indeed entire industries which base their success upon hammering home their message with volume to engender trust.

I did not realize you had any commercial interest when commenting here, I thought this was information simply shared among enthusiasts given its statements, and I would not have spoken had I taken the time to see that.

https://tinyurl.com/y98f9s4z

Above's the oldest list I have in PDF/Excel, and you can see on "S6" where it says "N = 1.2210 (59-60 HRC) R = 1.4034 (56 HRC)", this means all the "N" (= normal, not rostfrei) razors are made from 1.2210 and all the "R" from the 1.4034.

The prior reasoning cited was that silver steel from their " Prima Silver Steel" blade seems to get sharper due its metallurgy being unique, but in any event I would recommend for anyone reading this sentence to use a double blind experiment whenever possible to eliminate their own preconceived notions influencing their subjective evaluations, and here in straightrazordom to use of a bincoular stereo microscope to evaluate the cutting edges one creates...all the magnification in the world with one objective "buries the lead", namely of evaluating the shape of the bevel planes and their intersection at least as much as one evaluates merely the line created from their intersection.

 

Does anyone have any info on the steel toe of Dovo stainless steel razors? They are marked variously and I wonder if this is just branding or whether there is material difference between them.

En Vogue - Ice tempered frozen steel / Stainless
Masters - Stainless
Stainless handled - INOX / Stainless
Encina - Stainless

From using these razors on a regular basis :

En Vogue - hardest to set, best edge retention.
INOX - easiest to set, good edge retention.
Encina - medium / medium
Masters - both of mine were problematic for other reasons - very good edge retention once set.

 

All of the Dovo stainless razors use the same steel formula, but the Encina & Masters & Renaissance {original stainless shoulderless versions} are a different blank, which is very important.

The rest all share the same blank except for #42-385 (wedge grind, kept around mostly for French style barbering)...and modern Encina/Renaissance/Masters just borrows the blank from 100681 Best Quality, so today there is but two distinct blanks for Dovo stainless and one of them is only used for one model of razor (42385) that is rarely sold.

There was no difference between 1176815 Masters, 1196815 Encina, and 1885685 Renaissance except their decorations, so any variances observed are anecdotal type from small sample sizes. But it certainly displays great differences to the standard 5/8 round pt stainless as they are different blanks. For me that 6/8 stainless shoulderless blank is the greatest loss in Dovo's catalog.

The en vogue is the same blank as the INOX, and the same steel. Don't know if tempering is truly different or if it is just marketing, it is possible that the temper of #105 is kept unique (gun to my head I'd strongly doubt it, though).

There was a truly special 5/8 stainless blank called Best Class #95 offered in either snakewood or ironwood scales, but that's been deceased about 5-6yrs now.

 

I have a Masters and a Bismarck. I bought them both from TSS so they came with great edges. I have reset the bevel on the Bismarck (I have owned it a long time) but never reset the bevel on the Masters. They shave feels identical but I think the Masters holds an edge longer before it needs to be refreshed. It also could just be in my head since I know one is carbon steel and the other is stainless. It does seem like the Masters stains less.

Jared @thesuperiorshave is the Masters 6/8 no longer in production? That is sad news, it is one of my favorite razors.

 

yes @Keithmax, those absolutely tremendous 6/8 shoulderless stainless have been gone 4yrs now, last production was 2014 so if you fancy a trophy case queen collectible and find an unknowing seller offering one for the same price as their carbon siblings there is a mildly excellent investment before you. Dovo found 4pcs for us early this year (their factory's not the most organized of places, stuff turns up misplaced occasionally) and we sold them in one day.

 

I’m glad I have mine, good thing these razors last a lifetime.

 

Gents, I confused Jared with The Superior Shave with someone else and it took a moment to recognize that. I think he knows Dovo razors inside and out. I removed the portion of my original post that referred the the Prima Silver Steel blade being sharper.

It's important to me to post accurate information, though I missed it on that part.

 

Anyone wanting a Masters, Straight Razor Designs still had them in stock as of a few weeks ago. I bought one on a 40% off the entire site sale, which was an absolute steal!

 

but it was the carbon (1176811) masters...not original 1176815 (produced ~2010-2014)...still, certainly a steal