Gillette Canadian Rocket TTO timeline

Discussion in 'Safety Razors' started by BBS, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. brit

    brit in a box

    well,both my diamond plate and flat plate rockets have a greyish hue to them compared to my 44 rfb razor,which is nickel silver.my 2 piece 77 rfb is silverplate as it tarnishes black like an old type over time.,where as the 44s do not,so either of my rockets would be eligible for the rocket case..now compared to my z-4 tv superspeed which is grey in comparison they are brighter..but brit razors are well known for better plating quality..i am however quite confident the flat plat is original to the case as all of it is lightly used,montreal seller who claimed to be a relative of the original buyer who lived and grew up there at that era of time,and the aristocrat jr sets i have seen, real ones ,have an almost rhodium like sheen to them.i did compare them to my british aristocrats and they are indeed darker ,different hue. while some would go through a lot to pass off an incorrect razor as a cased set most wouldn't .i paid $50 shipped for this set where many go for prices well north of that in this condition..seller was not a collector ,just selling his grandads shaving tools.
    while none of this is cut in stone proof of authenticity, these razors had a fuzzy beginning due to post war production issues in montreal and the new flare tip coming in 1954 .without a former gillette employer coming forward and showing paperwork anything is possible.i never trust marketing ads 100 percent. finally the two differently plated aristocrat jrs (boxed and cased )were not marketed for or sold in canada..
     
  2. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Nickel silver will tarnish like regular silver so you can't use that as a test. Using a bright light checking how well it reflects compared to something silver seems to be the best test I know of. Going through all this is a bit pedantic but if these were high priced items these details become a lot more important especially when someone is trying to pass off a forgery of brass plated nickel silver as solid silver or claiming a set is correct when it is not while asking big sums of money for it.

    The more high priced, collectable something looks or expensively worded you need to dig into the fine details because more times then not depending the seller they are being purposely deceptive. In the case of cases and razors there are sellers that polish the cases and razors then call them N.O.S. when they aren't. It is these types of details along with some well placed questions trip up deceptive sellers or get them to back off their overpricing and drop it to something more reasonable.
     
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  3. ghostlife

    ghostlife Well-Known Member

    Great research guys :happy088:
     
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  4. brit

    brit in a box

    i totally agree..my 44 rfb's could be well plated nickel as well,never a tarnish mark like my early 77.great thread sir..
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  5. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Now that I have my gold plated rocket in hand here is how to tell the difference between a Super Speed styled gold plated Canadian Rocket and Gillette Milord. The same stamping differences also apply to the Super Speed styled nickel plated Canadian Rocket and 1940s Super Speed.

    First a side by side of the Milord on the left and Canadian Rocket on the right. At this point there is no way to tell them apart unless we look a the markings on each.
    mc1.jpg

    First we need to look at the underside of the razors. Milord on the left and Canadian Rocket on the right. Notice the Rocket lacks any information concerning its production origin i.e. no made in USA patent or trademark stamps like the Milord has.
    mc2.jpg mc3.jpg

    Finally we need to look at the blade tray. Milord on the left and Canadian Rocket on the right. Notice the Milord has the patent info stamp and the Canadian Rocket doesn't simply because US patents wouldn't apply to a Canadian product, only to an import like the Milord which was classified as when sold in Canada.
    mc4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  6. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Bottom line only 1 of 2 possibilities are left here concerning both
    Either they produced these in Canada and none of the US patents were applicable or they were produced in the US and through some legal loophole were able to market then as Canadian products when sold through Gillette of Canada as Rockets and not imports.

    Finally I haven't done a side by side shave with these yet but I have with nickel plated rocket and super speed. If they hold suite the Rocket will be a milder shave than the Milord.
     
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  7. brit

    brit in a box

    they must be u.s. made and marketed for canada, as tto razors were never made in canada and that style of razor wasn't made in england..one question? do the u.s.superspeeds share any internal part s with the flare tips? if so..slim chance the brits made some superseed razors without patent numbers gearing up for the flare tip run.as brits made flaretip superspeeds as well as flare tip rockets..very doubtful, no proof of and just a what if..
     
  8. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Update 1

    The red styrene cases were also sold after switch to the blue cases in 1952, 1953 and 1954 but only during the Christmas season in special Christmas sets. See comments for pictures of sets and ads.

    Update 2

    New razor almost 100% confirmed sold as a Canadian Rocket.

    Details why
    1. Upon further research it looks like the British razors went from the flat base plates to the diamond indent stamped ones in 1950 and if not then by 1951 for sure.
    2. Those red styrene cases do say razor made in England so the case was originally intended for an English made Gillette razor even though they changed the razor later on.
    3. The razor in question falls within the date window of when the case was first produced until they switched to the red styrene cases from the cardboard boxes which doesn't happen until 1950 and from the red to blue styrene cases which happens in 1952.
    4. Only English made Gillette razor I can't find any mention of sold in Canada is this one. Not only that I've seen about 6 of them come up for sale recently in Rocket cases all Canadian sellers and all had the patent pending stamp which makes them pre 1955. I've also seen numerous versions of this razor come up for sale from Canadian sellers without any cases. Too many razors to be strictly a case of collectors buying them elsewhere and reselling them in Canada plus the sellers in many cases are antique dealers.
    5. The case and razor shown in ads is a generic picture, it could have been a Super Speed set picture recycled for the adverts for all we know in 1950. Can't use the ad picture by itself as positive confirmation of the razor in the set for these years because of that.


    So with all that I will concede the razor was most likely sold as a Canadian Rocket and the time frame I am going with is 1950 to no later than 2nd quarter of 1951.

    Here is one of the best pictures of the set I've found with the razor in question.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Reason why no later than 2nd quarter of 1951 is we know for sure the Super Speed style Rockets were being produced by then.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  9. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    That set is either a 1950 or 1951 and should be correct as per my comment above. There is no way that set is a 1949 as we know for sure those cases didn't appear until 1950 and now almost 100% confirmed that razor was sold as a Canadian Rocket.

    The other interesting tidbit is that is the only razor to have been sold as a Canadian (1950 - 1951) and British Rocket (1962)

    Here is instance of it being sold as a British Rocket with ad corroborating the set and year.
    1962 (H on blade) Rocket Set No54A.JPG
    62page1.jpg 62page2.jpg
     
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  10. brit

    brit in a box

    20191222_120555.jpg 1953 (Y3 on blade) Gold Rocket Canadian Set.jpg
     
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  11. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Update on the red and blue styrene cases.

    Between 1952 and 1954 the Canadan Rocket sets were sold in both cases. The Regular Rocket aka the nickel plated razor was sold in the red case while the Deluxe Rocket sets aka the ones with gold plated razors were sold in the blue cases. Either sometime 54 or no later than 55 they dropped the red case completely and packaged both in the blue cases. That also means the Christmas sets during 52 - 54 were nickel plated razors because of the case packaged with them.

    53 ad - you can tell it 53 because of the Coronation sets also listed
    1953ad.jpg

    54 ad
    1954ad.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    Note concerning this razor it is possible they may have switched the razors back to British made Aristocrat Jr styled razor sometime after 52.

    We do know for sure it couldn't have been in a Canadian Rocket set prior to 52 since they never offered a Gold plated Deluxe razor until then. It also couldn't be 52 since we know with a 100% certainty those sets had the Super Speed styled Rocket so later 53 or later is the only possible candidate.

    No conclusive evidence either way.

    What we do know is the ad space always shows the Super Speed styled razors packaged in the blue cases but the ads from 54 - 56 use the same pictures as those originating in the 52 and 53 ads. If they used newer pictures we could say for sure it is whatever razor they used but they didn't. We also don't have any documented Super Speed styled razors with date codes past 52. X2 is the last one I've seen. If they made them past then we should see higher number dated coded razors like Y and Z date codes for example. Thus far no examples have surfaced. We also know they sold British Aristocrat sets during this time period and it possible this razor may have been sold as a yet as as known numbered set in Canada during 52 - 56 along side Rocket sets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
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  13. BBS

    BBS Well-Known Member

    This opens up the possibility that this razor was not packaged in 1950 with the red styrene cases and they only used the flat bottom base plate versions but instead used them later from sometime 53 or later.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. brit

    brit in a box

    this sample could be the start of the triangle baseplate rocket/crat jr design..
    1951 Aristocrat jr 27g.jpeg
    and the 1950 version..
    1950 (V4) Rocket Set No51 England.jpeg

    as the first rocket hd was aluminum and made before the coronation set.
    1951 No52A Anniversary Set.jpeg
    speculation of course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021 at 4:16 PM
  15. brit

    brit in a box

    gold set with 430030 baseplate.still looking but i am sure i've seen the diamond baseplate version in gold before 52..could have been gold plated aluminum ..
    1949 Aristocrat jr gold.jpeg
     
  16. brit

    brit in a box

    here it is..non hd gold ..
    1948-1954  Rocket Gold.JPG
    i believe the #15 style metal cases weren't available after 1951..could be wrong..;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021 at 6:23 PM
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  17. brit

    brit in a box

    here's another..
    38924364_1341006999364094_3399504483510648832_n.jpg
     
  18. brit

    brit in a box

    and another..
    download.jpeg
     
  19. brit

    brit in a box

    while these brit gold rocket sets don't give an accurate manufacture timeline to the diamond stamped baseplate. i would suspect these gold razors were available as well as the unmarked u.s made ss style ones in the blue cased rocket deluxe versions.at least sporadically.
     
  20. tonich

    tonich Well-Known Member

    I firmly believe the gold rocket set above is a mismatch
    Even the case is earlier production than the razor.
    And I am yet to find a gold plated case shown as above.
     
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