Ok so I have a jnat coti and thuringian. I can get razors shave ready off the coti and jnat. The thurni though I cannot get a shave ready edge. Is there a trick to thurnis that I should be aware of. Basically my edge seems just barely better than the king 6k I have after the thurni. It is lapped and smooth so I know that's not the issue. Currently the only thing I can get a decent edge on with the thurni is my Japanese kitchen knives. They don't need to be as precise as a razor has to be. I know I'm still learning and on the coti and jnat after stropping it will cut hairs on my arm about halfway up the hair shaft. So I know I still have a ways to go before I can even consider myself proficient in honing razors. But as I see it the best way to learn is to use what you hone. Eventually you will get frustrated with sub par shaves and figure out what you are doing wrong.